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The Best Way to Kill Off most Racism


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#91 googoodan

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:12 AM

Meh, I think verbal irony would, by definition, be more on the sarcastic side of things.

My issue wasn't with you defending anyone. I don't care if KT is racist. I don't care if you are racist. I don't care if Kurb, biscuit or Jerry Richardson are racists. I neither know nor care If they want to limit their time on earth to petty hate and miss out on wonderful people - let them.

My issue was the statement "racial stereotypes are the definition of racism"

You used it multiple times in that thread. You used it here (which is why I brought it up here). Now you're saying it was to turn the tables? Come on man. I believe that about as much as I believe Jerry Richardson would never draft Cam Newton.

#92 SZ James

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:20 AM

you seem to be confused about when i was being sarcastic and when i was being serious

hint: you have it backwards


#93 SZ James

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:22 AM

plus Jerry Richardson is totally a racist

#94 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:40 AM

So acts are less racist than words and racists comments only count when used towards minorities.

Sad...


yeah if you live in the fantasy world where privilege isn't a real thing then yeah i guess charging a white guy a quarter for his refill is way worse than saying a bunch of racist bullshit about an institutionally oppressed minority then citing dave chappelle as proof that you're not actually a racist sack of poo, thus normalizing racism and perpetuating a society that rewards those who perpetuate such stupid poo

#95 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:47 AM

racism:

We went there once with a black friend of ours and he wasn't charged for a refill. My room mate and I were charged for each and every time we wanted our solo cup of sweet tea refilled.


not racism:

Posted Image

Posted Image


http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

"Mandingo *****"

This stereotypical concept was invented by white slave owners who promoted the notion that male African slaves were animalistic and bestial in nature asserting, for example, that in "Negroes all the passions, emotions, and ambitions, are almost wholly subservient to the sexual instinct. . . ." and "this construction of the oversexed black male parlayed perfectly into notions of black bestiality and primitivism."





anyway can someone explain why racial slurs are banned (well, allegedly), but racial stereotypes are ok? because based on the tinderbox definition of racism, slurs aren't actually racist

#96 Kurb

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:48 AM

yeah if you live in the fantasy world where privilege isn't a real thing then yeah i guess charging a white guy a quarter for his refill is way worse than saying a bunch of racist bullshit about an institutionally oppressed minority then citing dave chappelle as proof that you're not actually a racist sack of poo, thus normalizing racism and perpetuating a society that rewards those who perpetuate such stupid poo


No wonder you are so mad about Racism.
It threatens who you are.
This is good to.come out. You can realize you are the racist person and work on improving yourself.

#97 PhillyB

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:49 PM

GS the false premise you're arguing from here is that everyone offended by the refill scenario isn't also offended by stuff like the imagery you just posted.

I understand fully that there are still plenty of idiot assholes with regressive views on race, and I agree that "black people can be racist too" is generally a stupid argument (not because it's not true but because it's generally used indignantly to defend whiteness as though whiteness needs defending) but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this witch hunt. Agreeing that the refill episode, if true, is an asshole racist thing and also acknowledging the demographics of privilege historically and contemporarily as they relate to socio-economic status are not mutually exclusive. I think part of the problem you're running into is the fact that the casual observer takes your marginalizing of the refill scenario (and it is indeed marginal compared to the latter problem) to mean that you're inconsistently applying your accusation of racism; that is, giving one act of racism a pass because of some utilitarian construct wherein the act is overshadowed by greater acts of racism that may spawn or affect the smaller one.

Correct me if ive misread you, but I think clarifying this would help keep this discussion meaningful. Right now it's fuging retarded.

#98 pstall

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

if more people posted things they do on a daily basis to refute and drive down racism, we won't get lost in the weeds of cleverness etc.

posting charts and graphs and abstracts from whichever university you can find is well and good. but actually facing the issue head on that seems to be such a major deal, accomplishes infinitely more.

there is this weird thought process here in the huddle on this topic. those that keep saying racism lives acts like anyone with just the slightest dif of opinion is either also a racist or a caveman. then they are shocked at the responses and confusion it illicits.

does racism continue? yes. on the same scale as before? no. is it more subtle now? sure. are there internment camps for minorities? no. is the playing field totally even? no and proly depends on who you ask and what part of the country they live in.

does posting on message boards incessantly about racial issues make you a champion for racial harmony? umm. that would be no.

like they teach people who deal with addicts. don't believe what the addict tells you, believe what they do.

all im going to say here to sum this up for me. im willing to bet the very people that are painted into a corner as being a bigot or some swamp creature, do more with those that are unlike themselves, than the academic finger pointers who hear their professor give a lecture or they watch some indie film on a racial subject and take it to the mountain top as the definitive gospel of how it really goes. and no philly. i do NOT put you in that category.

#99 Kurb

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:55 PM

GS the false premise you're arguing from here is that everyone offended by the refill scenario isn't also offended by stuff like the imagery you just posted.

I understand fully that there are still plenty of idiot assholes with regressive views on race, and I agree that "black people can be racist too" is generally a stupid argument (not because it's not true but because it's generally used indignantly to defend whiteness as though whiteness needs defending) but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this witch hunt. Agreeing that the refill episode, if true, is an asshole racist thing and also acknowledging the demographics of privilege historically and contemporarily as they relate to socio-economic status are not mutually exclusive. I think part of the problem you're running into is the fact that the casual observer takes your marginalizing of the refill scenario (and it is indeed marginal compared to the latter problem) to mean that you're inconsistently applying your accusation of racism; that is, giving one act of racism a pass because of some utilitarian construct wherein the act is overshadowed by greater acts of racism that may spawn or affect the smaller one.

Correct me if ive misread you, but I think clarifying this would help keep this discussion meaningful. Right now it's fuging retarded.


You put to much faith in the child.

#100 PhillyB

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:47 PM

all im going to say here to sum this up for me. im willing to bet the very people that are painted into a corner as being a bigot or some swamp creature, do more with those that are unlike themselves, than the academic finger pointers who hear their professor give a lecture or they watch some indie film on a racial subject and take it to the mountain top as the definitive gospel of how it really goes. and no philly. i do NOT put you in that category.


i would suggest that a healthy balance of both is necessary. the internet is a good medium for the expression and collision of ideas and often times it's the lab in which we hammer out worldviews and find ourselves in a place to articulate them, modify them, etc. i don't think it's prudent to minimalize the kind of effect such discourse can have on the individual's paradigm, especially in a culture affected by increasing globalization and the rising-up of generations used to forming opinions and knowledge bases that ground them through these sorts of mediums.

moreover, this globalization combined with technology has made it so the very real-world difference-making you speak of is inextricably tied, i think, into discussions of this sort. people spend time on the internet now, and if you're trying to raise global awareness, spread information, or alter viewpoints accordingly, i think there's a case to be made that engaging in dialogue on the internet is one of the most effective ways to do it.

of course this means not treating people like dogshit just because the experiences that shaped you gave you an advantage over the unfortunate individuals caught in inherited cultures of discrimination and regressive worldviews, but you know whatever


You put to much faith in the child.


i am quite convinced GS is far from a racist. however,

of course this means not treating people like dogshit just because the experiences that shaped you gave you an advantage over the unfortunate individuals caught in inherited cultures of discrimination and regressive worldviews, but you know whatever



#101 pstall

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:34 PM

i get the walls that the internet has brought down. no question.

and i get that some were born at the 20 yard line(Red Zone) and some were born in the opposing end zone. you know how i came to that conclusion? not from google or the tinderbox. from years and years living in it and seeing it and dreaming and planning and scheming with guys on one day breaking out of the tough spot we were all in. some were black. some were white. some were hispanic. but we all wanted to have and do more than what we saw our parents do.

and please, don't lump me into the pool of the advantaged or infer i have zero clue what others with less than what i had has had to go through. that kind of thinking does more to minimize the awareness from the internet than me saying lets do more doing than talking. yes, conversations can lead to bigger things, no doubt about it.
take it from me. i see far too often email after email and idea after idea on an issue, tons of awareness was made and then, at the end of the day. nothing was done. why? because the internet or technology to some degree can create just enough of a safe distance to where the full brunt of what is needed can never be felt. let me write a check for a charity instead of going down and volunteering.
i call it the "like" mentality. not like minded but, just.... like. facebook has the like button. its easy. you just click on the like button and along with thousands of others you are now aware. but what if they put a "finished" button out there? ahh. now we're talking.

at times we put too much zeal into the wrong things. look at all the people that will beat their bodies to go do those warrior dashes and such. the time and money and energy spent to do it. look at those that will host the event and they make tons of money. then, they move onto another city.

imagine, if that same energy,effort and time and focus was given to the poor. or mentoring. or donating whatever is needed for a school that is behind on so many levels.

a group of guys i play hoops has mushroomed into quite network. professionally and just for fun. i have been pushing to get us to leverage our resources for the greater good. it has been quite the endeavor. we have not done all that i want yet but here is a microcosim of what we are talking about.

a group of guys send out emails etc for a golf charity event to help someone with MS. a noble cause for sure. they haven't gotten full 100% participation but it will raise lots of funds for this guy and i hope it does.

i send out an email to the guys that are sort of in charge of the group. im trying to help my wife find big brothers and mentors or just guys who can take 1 hour out of their week to help. so far, crickets. it won't cost the person a dime except for gas and maybe a meal if they so choose to do. but i spoke to the main guy the other day and i will keep trying.

the point being, many times, it's not the cause that people are unaware of. it's do they really want to do something besides talking about it. many think oh somebody else will take care of that and that day never comes.

sadly, from the research i have done with charities and groups that try to help the poor or low income or help a struggling school, often times, the ones that get the most help are the ones that market best and then, even when they get help, it's a drop in the bucket. whereas the groups that are probably the most in need and doing the most good work, don't have the time and funds to get the word out.
that is what i'm trying to help break through. bring the right groups with the right resources, to those that have the right cause.

that is my part of killing off racism and classism. i am but one guy though.

*edit*- i added the Red Zone part. i didn't want to give the impression that white people(and thats who most really mean when it comes to priv) only had a 20 yard head start. and yes i do understand being born with an advantage doesn't exclusively mean someone is white. so ease up social dobermans. :lol:

#102 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:46 PM

GS the false premise you're arguing from here is that everyone offended by the refill scenario isn't also offended by stuff like the imagery you just posted.

I understand fully that there are still plenty of idiot assholes with regressive views on race, and I agree that "black people can be racist too" is generally a stupid argument (not because it's not true but because it's generally used indignantly to defend whiteness as though whiteness needs defending) but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this witch hunt. Agreeing that the refill episode, if true, is an asshole racist thing and also acknowledging the demographics of privilege historically and contemporarily as they relate to socio-economic status are not mutually exclusive. I think part of the problem you're running into is the fact that the casual observer takes your marginalizing of the refill scenario (and it is indeed marginal compared to the latter problem) to mean that you're inconsistently applying your accusation of racism; that is, giving one act of racism a pass because of some utilitarian construct wherein the act is overshadowed by greater acts of racism that may spawn or affect the smaller one.

Correct me if ive misread you, but I think clarifying this would help keep this discussion meaningful. Right now it's fuging retarded.


context is as important to consider as the act itself. when a member of a privileged group perpetuates racial stereotypes about a historically oppressed minority because "lol look here's a chappelle skit that i struggle to actually understand", it is more harmful than when a member of a privileged group is charged a quarter for his sweet tea, mixed and served to him by members of that historically oppressed minority group. as long as certain groups hold significant, institutional advantages over others, forgive me for rolling my eyes at things like "but but but white people are discriminated against too! here look at this time i was overcharged a quarter!" every day you sit idly by, accepting these advantages (or as many do: pretending that they don't even exist), you are complicit with the institutional racism of american society. i do not give one fug about that quarter. as i said earlier: call it the price of privilege.

#103 PhillyB

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:31 PM

insignificance in the greater context =/= justified

again I think this conversation is being fundamentally skewed by the fact that you're talking about the morality of focusing on the refill act compared against the greater context while others are talking about the singular focus of the morality of the act by itself as though it were in a vacuum.

#104 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:49 PM

it's not simply that it's "insignificant in the greater context"; if roles were reversed, it would be fundamentally different. a privileged group overcharging an oppressed group by a quarter is not the same as an oppressed group overcharging a privileged group by a quarter. tbqh here in america black people are way more justified in telling white people to get fuged than vice versa. the people who benefit from structural advantages have the power to change these things but for some reason they tend to fall back to "i don't see color i'm basically colorblind what's all this talk about racism anyway?" i mean idc about "the act itself in a vacuum" because that's basically a waste of time outside of a philosophy course

#105 pstall

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

we could have saved 7 pages and of gobs of bandwidth by saying 2 wrongs, do make a right. makes perfect sense to me.


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