haha eff all your skin color choices... Jesus was GREY
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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:20 PM
off topic but this is cool as hell
Posted 04 March 2013 - 10:00 PM
There is 0 historical or archeological evidence for jewish slavery in Egypt.
Ever hear of a guy named Moses?
Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:09 PM
Actually, there are several historical writings and/or authors outside of the Bible that conclude that Jesus existed. I am a skeptic by nature and I am not here to thump a Bible at anyone, but after careful study, reading, & research, I believe Jesus was who he claimed to be. And to the OP - yes I know he was Jewish with dark features. Doesn't matter to me.
Ignatius (35-107) wrote of the birth, and resurrection which took place in the time of the govenment of Pontius Pilate, being truly and certainly accomplished by Jesus Christ.
Josephus (AD 37-100) - a Jewish source indicated that the Jews were familiar with Jesus, His miracles, His death, and the claims regarding the resurrection
Bavli (in the Babylonian Talmud) - also talked about Jesus - althought he did not believe who Jesus claimed to be
Thallus , Celsus, and Suetonius (70-130) were Roman historians that provided Roman testimony to the fact that Jesus really lived.
Cornelius Tacitus was another Roman historian (55-120) that presented Jesus as a real historical figure and wrote that he had been executed under Pontius Pilate.
In all, at least 42-authors mention Jesus within 150-years of his death, and several of these were not believers...just historians. Further, prophecy was written about Jesus in the Old Testament 400-500 years before he was born. Prophecy in Psalms, Isaiah, Zechariah, Hosea, & Micah foretold where he would be born, how he would live, where he would live, how he would be betrayed, and how he would die. Pretty interesting if you like history.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:12 AM
I'm a bit tired myself, and may return to tackle this point by point, but there is a big one I do want to cover now. Burden of proof. It is not a fallacy. It is how justice in America works. It is how we determine things to be true or at least, likely true. Asking me to prove something/someone DOESN'T exist is absurd. I cannot prove that bigfoot doesn't exist, but that does not validate bigfoot belief. I cannot prove that space-traveling aliens don't exist, but that does not validate space-traveling alien belief. I cannot prove Jesus, precisely as reported in the bible, did not exist, but that does not validate belief in him. I cannot disprove god, nor do I have to. Just as in court. The defendant does not have to prove his innocence. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. He is presumed innocent until proven guilty, based on the evidence. Same goes for god claims with me (and literally every atheist I know personally). The religious are the prosecution. They are the ones making the claim of guilt of existence. They are claiming god exists. I do not have to prove god's innocence. I merely have to be able to refute the arguments used. If the religious/prosecution fails to establish, beyond a reasonable doubt, that god exists, then he is to be presumed innocent of existing.
Now, again, if somebody wants to believe, they are free to with no qualms or harsh words from me. If you and I were sitting and talking face to face and you mentioned you are religious, cool. Good for you. The woman I'm currently seeing is Catholic. It really means nothing to me. However, the second you say "I should believe", I'm going to have to take you task for it because you are claiming certainty that god exists, otherwise, there would be no reason for you to attempt to get me to believe, right? Just as if you claimed that I should go jump off a bridge into a shallow river, I'm going to say, "fug that. no. That is stupid". Sure, I could probably word it differently, but it means the same thing. It's harder to be understanding because we don't all have a real personal report between us here. We are effectively strangers. While you may be able to take hearing that from a personal friend who you have a mutual understanding with how you speak to each other, you can't have that with me, and I get it. I just try to treat everybody the same, so I sort of just speak how I speak. If it ever comes off as unwarranted mockery of you as an individual, then please, forgive me. That is not the intent.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:17 AM
My bad, I thought you had posted the "ridiculous" thing with my quote.
that wasn't targeted at you
Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:00 AM
Posted 05 March 2013 - 08:40 AM
As far as "prophecy" goes....you do realize that the OT was around during the time of the writers of the NT, right? It's not hard to make the pieces fit when you have the foundation already laid out. It's as if a buddy of mine that passed away was writing a book on the life and times of Saddam Hussein, but didn't live long enough to write of Saddam's last 10 years. Well, all I have to do is just pick up where he left off....and throw in that Saddam was actually a ballerina and an avid Brittany Spears fan. It isn't true. Or, same example, but he dies before 9/11 and let's say he predicts that there will be a massive attack on US soil from the Middle East. In New York. On skyscrapers. And I just so happen to finish his writings and pencil in the details. Except, it was actually a rocket filled with kittens that hit the twin towers. Is part of it true? Sure. A flying craft hit the twin towers. However, the details are false. In thousands of years, it is possible that some people might believe that. And they would be silly.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:02 PM
Might have been his "magic". Walking on water and making blind people see. Oh yea, there was that raising people from death, including himself. Yea, that would have fooled many.
I enjoy the idea that some guy named Jesus once said "I AM GOD, FOLLOW ME" and for whatever reason people did, and 1,000s of years later they still do.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:06 PM
Not at all. But I just want to make the point that all ansestors suffered. You can dwell on that or move on. I chose to move on.
These are very interesting reads. I am building a library as an inheritance to my children and I will definitely include that book in my collection. I have studied the Irish slave history in America as well. You might be interested to know that part of the reason this is not so well known is because the slave traders made no distinction between Blacks and Irish. Slavery came in many forms during this time period and no story should go untold. I hope that your reason for bringing this up was to honor the people that went through it and not to somehow denigrate the blacks that went through it as well.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:06 PM
Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:37 PM
His existence is just as dubious as Jesus'. There's a reason archeology is largely forbidden in places where he was purported to have lived.
Do those doubting the existence of Jesus also doubt the existence of Muhammad?
Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:01 PM
Look at this.