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Panthro

The Economy is Horrible....

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so we all agree, ban lobbying?

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Union_Membership_1930-2004.jpg

Just going to leave this here

I wonder if a comparison of the decline amount of workers in production jobs vs the decline of Unionized Workers.

Basically I'm wondering if that is more a sign of the lack of factory/production jobs more than the decline of the might Unionized worker vs Un-Unionized Worker.

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both. but they go hand in hand... one of the biggest advantages of outsourcing was that it broke the unions.

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It's a little of both, but it's highly accelerated by the fact that US business has undergone a systematic, purposeful eradication of unions.

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It's a little of both, but it's highly accelerated by the fact that US business has undergone a systematic, purposeful eradication of unions.

I think it's important to mention Unions aren't exactly choir boys either.

I see their need, but bad apples on both sides etc etc.

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Absolutely. A lot of the common complaints have a lot of merit, and the old system of unions was antiquated and never did catch up with the times or the new economy.

That being said the fact that they were destroyed without any replacement is a big reason for wage stagnation/decline.

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Absolutely. A lot of the common complaints have a lot of merit, and the old system of unions was antiquated and never did catch up with the times or the new economy.

That being said the fact that they were destroyed without any replacement is a big reason for wage stagnation/decline.

I think we are close to agreeing on something today...

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I think it's important to mention Unions aren't exactly choir boys either.

I see their need, but bad apples on both sides etc etc.

Choir boys compared to what? Union carbide killed upwards of 16000 people in india. Ge polluted central new york for the rest of eternity. Nike effectively runs off slave labor, halliburton, boeing and lockheed are war profiteers, exxon and bp destroyed entire ecosystems due to outright negligence. Monsanto is single handedly destroying our agricultural industry through lobbying and lawsuits...

But yea, sometimes unions can be a bit obnoxious.

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Choir boys compared to what? Union carbide killed upwards of 16000 people in india. Ge polluted central new york for the rest of eternity. Nike effectively runs off slave labor, halliburton, boeing and lockheed are war profiteers, exxon and bp destroyed entire ecosystems due to outright negligence. Monsanto is single handedly destroying our agricultural industry through lobbying and lawsuits...

But yea, sometimes unions can be a bit obnoxious.

And generally ran by organized crime for decades.

All your points are correct also.

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And generally ran by organized crime for decades.

All your points are correct also.

as were large portions of everything else... the point is... unions are always derided for being unsavory (which they often are.) My question is, can one tangle with multi-national conglomerates and corrupt politicians without being unsavory?

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The old thought process of having x amount of workers to do x amount of work when manufacturing engineering can improve productivity and reduce workers needed isn't very uniony. Sometimes we have to realize that through technology, some jobs SHOULD be eliminated.

Unions created to protect from poor management IS needed Unions created to protect outdated jobs AREN'T needed. Unions created to protect worker safety where government oversight is failing...needed. Unions created to simply force workers to pay dues that then go to political candidates coffers and get kickbacks/insane pension deals...not needed. Lot more to cover, but when states in cahoots with unions wrote compulsory union membership laws...that's when crap got bad. Choice is good. Even here in North Carolina you can unionize...you just have to have a secret ballot and things like that. Something that scares unions I guess because they don't know who to strongarm.

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As long as we as consumers demand high technology for a fraction of the price...we will rely on low manufacturing cost countries to produce the products.

Want to answer a tough question.

How could one ever compete against labor costs overseas with US-based workers. Forget nationalistic pride with regard to quality...just be honest and how do you compete when a competitor will easily do the same. The manufacturing abilities of China is really the top in the world.

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