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More gun laws = fewer deaths, 50-state study says

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Well that's settled

http://news.yahoo.com/more-gun-laws-fewer-deaths-134804944.html
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let me sum up the rest of this thread before it even starts
[attachment=5373:image.jpg]
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Of the gun deaths in the US, 60 percent were suicides.

We obviously have a gun problem that needs solving, and not a mental illness problem...


I wonder how many of the other gun deaths were attributed to the 60 percent that offed themselves too...

Also:

[quote]


Our study has limitations. First, the legislative strength score, which tallies a single point per law, has not been validated. Neither has the weighted Brady scoring system, and we are unaware of any such scoring systems that have been validated. Our results, which divided states into quartiles of legislative strength, were essentially the same with either of these scoring systems. Second, we examined only deaths by firearms, not nonfatal firearm injuries; fatality was our primary outcome. Approximately 2.6 nonfatal firearm injuries are treated for every fatal firearm injury.[sup][url="http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1661390#ref-ioi130037-1"]1[/url][/sup][sup],[url="http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1661390#ref-ioi130037-40"]40[/url][/sup] Third, we were unable to control for the enforcement of firearm laws or the exploitation of loopholes, which may vary between states. Fourth, although we adjusted for many state-based factors associated with firearm fatalities, there may be additional factors not considered in our model that are relevant (eg, city laws and police enforcement). However, we included nonfirearm suicides and nonfirearm homicides in some of our analyses to control for the potential role of additional factors. We found little evidence of substitution—rates of firearm-related deaths were not correlated with rates of nonfirearm violent death in the multivariable model. Fifth, although we found that states with more legislation have lower fatality rates, ie, are “safer” states, in a cross-sectional ecological study we could not determine if the greater number of laws were the reason for the reduced fatality rates. The association could have been confounded by firearm ownership rates or other unaccounted factors.


In conclusion, we found an association between the legislative strength of a state's firearm laws—as measured by a higher number of laws—and a lower rate of firearm fatalities. The association was significant for firearm fatalities overall and for firearm suicide and firearm homicide deaths, individually. As our study could not determine a cause-and-effect relationship, further studies are necessary to define the nature of this association.[/quote]

So no... It isn't so cut-and-dry...

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Posted · Report post

settled

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Posted · Report post

lol... because you say so?

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yes

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[quote name='Panthro' timestamp='1362687888' post='2153950']
settled
[/quote]

Only thing that is settled is that you are an idiot.

Carry on.

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[quote name='MadHatter' timestamp='1362688330' post='2153964']

Only thing that is settled is that you are an idiot.

Carry on.
[/quote]

lol

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I'd like them to research the effect of population density to violent crime. I think that makes a noticeable difference too.

Speaking of which, I don't know if their study factored in states' populations against their rate of gun crime. I mean some of those states out west probably have little laws at all regarding firearms and have very few deaths based on population alone.

I'd bet that DC (last I checked was the highest population concentration in the country per square mile) leads the list in almost all violent crime.

In my opinion, that would be because people (in the US) just can't get along, especially when there is a high concentration of people per actual living space.

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[quote name='Bronn' timestamp='1362688840' post='2153975']
I'd like them to research the effect of population density to violent crime. I think that makes a noticeable difference too.

Speaking of which, I don't know if their study factored in states' populations against their rate of gun crime. I mean some of those states out west probably have little laws at all regarding firearms and have very few deaths based on population alone.

I'd bet that DC (last I checked was the highest population concentration in the country per square mile) leads the list in almost all violent crime.

In my opinion, that would be because people (in the US) just can't get along, especially when there is a high concentration of people per actual living space.
[/quote]

i don't think DC is even in the top 5 in population density...

unless you're counting it as a state...

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maybe we should start funding gun research for the first time in decades

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it's not as though people pay attention to any of the other research out there.

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[quote name='Bronn' timestamp='1362688840' post='2153975']
I'd like them to research the effect of population density to violent crime. I think that makes a noticeable difference too.

Speaking of which, I don't know if their study factored in states' populations against their rate of gun crime. I mean some of those states out west probably have little laws at all regarding firearms and have very few deaths based on population alone.

I'd bet that DC (last I checked was the highest population concentration in the country per square mile) leads the list in almost all violent crime.

In my opinion, that would be because people (in the US) just can't get along, especially when there is a high concentration of people per actual living space.
[/quote]

I'm going to guess....because I'm way too lazy to research it....that violent crime in the US is way way higher than in Asia...where the population density is way way higher than the majority of the US!

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[quote name='Hawk' timestamp='1362689878' post='2153993']
I'm going to guess....because I'm way too lazy to research it....that violent crime in the US is way way higher than in Asia...where the population density is way way higher than the majority of the US!
[/quote]

they don't worship violence.

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^i don't know what you mean by that but they certainly do "worship violence" in movies/video games

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[quote name='mmmbeans' timestamp='1362689029' post='2153977']

i don't think DC is even in the top 5 in population density...

unless you're counting it as a state...
[/quote]

Not sure I follow... I think as an "area" it is more dense than anywhere in the country... This also begs the question of if it was included in the study, since (again, last I heard) it was one of the most violent places in the country but not a "state"...

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[quote name='mmmbeans' timestamp='1362690012' post='2153994']


they don't worship violence.
[/quote]

What do you mean by "worship violence"? Because we can start with several martial arts closely tied to (if not based in) religion, & end in a video game phenomenon in which the goal is to enslave innocent creatures & force them to fight... somewhere in the middle there is tentacle rape.

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[quote name='mmmbeans' timestamp='1362690012' post='2153994']

they don't worship violence.
[/quote]

This is a great point.

Personally, I think American culture desensitizes people to a point where they disregard the consequences of their actions in a lot of troublesome situations.

Couple that with the social inequality that pushes people toward crime, and you have a recipe for higher rates of unsavory things.

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personally I think the north American culture is to not give two shits about your neighbor and just take care of yourself...and if that includes killing your neighbor, then so be it!

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[quote name='Hawk' timestamp='1362692013' post='2154025']
personally I think the north American culture is to not give two shits about your neighbor and just take care of yourself...
[/quote]
I concur....look at how madhatter just came in here and called me an idiot.

he is what is wrong with america.

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[quote name='BBQ&Beer' timestamp='1362691572' post='2154021']
What do you mean by "worship violence"? Because we can start with several martial arts closely tied to (if not based in) religion, & end in a video game phenomenon in which the goal is to enslave innocent creatures & force them to fight... somewhere in the middle there is tentacle rape.
[/quote]

eastern martial arts are first and foremost based in discipline, and tempered with spirituality.

Culturally, violence is our preferred way of problem solving, and is almost synonymous with our concept of masculinity. That, i think is the crux of the problem. When you combine this misinterpretation of masculinity with narcissism disguised as individuality and a general lack of respect for the people you live around (both personal and institutional,) and then add guns... well... there you go. That's not to say that it doesn't exist in other places, it certainly does... but Americans love the idea that they're tough, don't give a f*ck and will fight over anything. The fact that this has never been less true than it is now only makes it more insidious. We bought into our own myth, and it's f*cking us up.

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[quote name='Bronn' timestamp='1362691391' post='2154018']

Not sure I follow... I think as an "area" it is more dense than anywhere in the country... This also begs the question of if it was included in the study, since (again, last I heard) it was one of the most violent places in the country but not a "state"...
[/quote]

NYC and los angeles are both more dense than DC... I know that off the top of my head... I would think Miami and Boston are as well but I don't know. I can't speak to the violence, other than that I know that DC has some very bad areas.

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just to throw it out there, the republic of kiribati has no guns on the islands outside of what's carried by a very small military; police only carry batons, and they have one of the highest population densities in the world.

there is currently one guy in jail for murder.

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American tourist?!!!!! I kid, I kid

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[quote name='mmmbeans' timestamp='1362693107' post='2154043']


eastern martial arts are first and foremost based in discipline, and tempered with spirituality.

Culturally, violence is our preferred way of problem solving, and is almost synonymous with our concept of masculinity. That, i think is the crux of the problem. When you combine this misinterpretation of masculinity with narcissism disguised as individuality and a general lack of respect for the people you live around (both personal and institutional,) and then add guns... well... there you go. That's not to say that it doesn't exist in other places, it certainly does... but Americans love the idea that they're tough, don't give a f*ck and will fight over anything. The fact that this has never been less true than it is now only makes it more insidious. We bought into our own myth, and it's f*cking us up.
[/quote]

Ah I see. I tend to attribute that attitude more toward immaturity (the slightest insult is worth fighting over) than worshipping violence but fair cop.

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