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More gun laws = fewer deaths, 50-state study says


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#31 Hawk

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:36 AM

I blame it all on drugs.

#32 Bronn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

I wish someone could rectify the pro gun argument that the US has a disproportionate amount of mentally unhealthy people, with a desensitization to violence; therefore the only responsible thing to do is give this mentally unhealthy and desensitized society more guns and easier access to guns.


If the system worked as intended, then they already have less access.

The problem is that the system doesn't work as intended, because there are loopholes and a black market for firearms.

My whole issue with any gun control legislation is that it doesn't really close loopholes, and no amount of legislation is ever going to penetrate the black market.

The government, like they do with lots of other issues we face as a country, wants to somehow make a show of "oh here's a problem we can fix with new laws and media sensationalism!" yet all they effectively do is waste taxpayers' time and money on the equivalent of a cheap bandaid (you know, the kind that don't stick worth a poo)...

Let's focus on fixing the situations that lead to the parts of our society that lean towards criminal action (like institutionalized racism, class warfare, and inequality) and not the little things that won't make a difference.

I still haven't seen anyone comment on the 60 percent firearm suicide rate.

Do you not care that more people kill themselves with guns than kill other people with guns because it doesn't fit your agenda?

Taking away the guns in 60 percent of those deaths would likely not reduce it at all.

#33 teeray

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:18 AM

I still haven't seen anyone comment on the 60 percent firearm suicide rate.

Do you not care that more people kill themselves with guns than kill other people with guns because it doesn't fit your agenda?

Taking away the guns in 60 percent of those deaths would likely not reduce it at all.


According to the Harvard School of Public Health that isn't true.

In the United States, suicides outnumber homicides almost two to one. Perhaps the real tragedy behind suicide deaths—about 30,000 a year, one for every 45 attempts—is that so many could be prevented. Research shows that whether attempters live or die depends in large part on the ready availability of highly lethal means, especially firearms.

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

The lesson? Many lives would likely be saved if people disposed of their firearms, kept them locked away, or stored them outside the home. Says HSPH Professor of Health Policy David Hemenway, the ICRC’s director: “Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.”

But few can survive a gun blast. That’s why the ICRC’s Catherine Barber has launched Means Matter, a campaign that asks the public to help prevent suicide deaths by adopting practices and policies that keep guns out of the hands of vulnerable adults and children. For details, visit www.meansmatter.org.

Barber, who co-directed the National Violent Injury Statistics System, has also developed free, self-paced, online workshops to help public officials, mental health service providers, and community groups put together suicide prevention programs and policies. To take advantage of this joint effort by HSPH and the Suicide Prevention Resource Center, visit http://training.sprc.org. — Karin Kiewra

http://www.hsph.harv...ns-and-suicide/


this is from the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery

Background: The current investigation explores the association between rates of household firearm ownership and suicide across the 50 states. Prior ecologic research on the relationship between firearm prevalence and suicide has been criticized for using problematic proxy-based, rather than survey-based, estimates of firearm prevalence and for failing to control for potential psychological risk factors for suicide. We address these two criticisms by using recently available state-level survey-based estimates of household firearm ownership, serious mental illness, and alcohol/illicit substance use and dependence.
Methods: Negative binomial regression was used to assess the relationship between household firearm ownership rates and rates of firearm, nonfirearm, and overall suicide for both sexes and for four age groups. Analyses controlled for rates of poverty, urbanization, unemployment, mental illness, and drug and alcohol dependence and abuse.
Results: US residents of all ages and both sexes are more likely to die from suicide when they live in areas where more households contain firearms. A positive and significant association exists between levels of household firearm ownership and rates of firearm and overall suicide; rates of nonfirearm suicide were not associated with levels of household firearm ownership.
Conclusion: Household firearm ownership levels are strongly associated with higher rates of suicide, consistent with the hypothesis that the availability of lethal means increases the rate of completed suicide.
http://journals.lww....1&type=abstract



and also this from the New England Journal of Medicine

Results

In the first year after the purchase of a handgun, suicide was the leading cause of death among handgun purchasers, accounting for 24.5 percent of all deaths and 51.9 percent of deaths among women 21 to 44 years old. The increased risk of suicide by any method among handgun purchasers (standardized mortality ratio, 4.31) was attributable entirely to an excess risk of suicide with a firearm (standardized mortality ratio, 7.12). In the first week after the purchase of a handgun, the rate of suicide by means of firearms among purchasers (644 per 100,000 person-years) was 57 times as high as the adjusted rate in the general population. Mortality from all causes during the first year after the purchase of a handgun was greater than expected for women (standardized mortality ratio, 1.09), and the entire increase was attributable to the excess number of suicides by means of a firearm. As compared with the general population, handgun purchasers remained at increased risk for suicide by firearm over the study period of up to six years, and the excess risk among women in this cohort (standardized mortality ratio, 15.50) remained greater than that among men (standardized mortality ratio, 3.23). The risk of death by homicide with a firearm was elevated among women (standardized mortality ratio at one year, 2.20; at six years, 2.01) but low among men (standardized mortality ratio at one year, 0.84; at six years, 0.79).
Full Text of Results...

Conclusions

The purchase of a handgun is associated with a substantial increase in the risk of suicide by firearm and by any method. The increase in the risk of suicide by firearm is apparent within a week after the purchase of a handgun and persists for at least six years.



#34 Bronn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

I was speaking based on a person's decision to use a firearm to kill themselves. If they are that far gone, I'm assuming they will do it anyway. Do you have a statistic that verifies that failed gun suicides go on to die by suicide?

Yes, I know that few can survive a gun blast to the head. But, hypothetically, if they are too far gone or mentally unstable enough to place that gun to their head and pull the trigger, are they not too far gone, period?

#35 Bronn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:35 AM

I was replying before you added the last bit... but...

There is a reason that most places have waiting periods and background checks (IF the people purchase legally) for handguns. This is to curb any potential situation that leads to malicious desire to purchase said firearm.

Obviously, people who still harbor feelings strong enough to shoot themselves after that period is up, or after even 6 years, are too far gone to be saved.

#36 teeray

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:35 AM

I was speaking based on a person's decision to use a firearm to kill themselves. If they are that far gone, I'm assuming they will do it anyway. Do you have a statistic that verifies that failed gun suicides go on to die by suicide?

Yes, I know that few can survive a gun blast to the head. But, hypothetically, if they are too far gone or mentally unstable enough to place that gun to their head and pull the trigger, are they not too far gone, period?


Not sure if this answers your question, but the Harvard report stated this:

“Studies show that most attempters act on impulse, in moments of panic or despair. Once the acute feelings ease, 90 percent do not go on to die by suicide.”



#37 teeray

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

I was replying before you added the last bit... but...

There is a reason that most places have waiting periods and background checks (IF the people purchase legally) for handguns. This is to curb any potential situation that leads to malicious desire to purchase said firearm.

Obviously, people who still harbor feelings strong enough to shoot themselves after that period is up, or after even 6 years, are too far gone to be saved.


To be fair to the point you were trying to make, although I haven't read all those studies in their completely, I think that is just from raw data, and doesn't analyze whether there are sociological factors in areas that have higher gun ownership or psychological factors in gun owners themselves that make them more susceptible to committing suicide.

#38 Bronn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

Yeah I saw that, but I don't know if that 90 percent is talking about those who attempt with a firearm or those who don't.

It may be cold and blunt, but those who attempt without a firearm aren't really giving it a serious attempt anyway.

If they're talking about 90 percent of people who survive firearm attempt, that is probably like under 100 people nationwide.

As a related aside. In the church I grew up in, a guy attended for a long while that had tried to kill himself with a shotgun. Half his face was scarred and he was missing an eye (he wore a patch), but he survived. I'd bet his family and other loved ones were glad that he did. I do think alcohol was a contributor to his attempt, too. But, I guess his case does prove that maybe those who make that attempt may not be too far gone, actually.

It's obvious that I am pro-gun. I try to keep a level head on the arguments, really, and I try to see both sides of the issue. But, ultimately, what it boils down to for me is the government trying to find a solution to an unfixible problem with its current focus.

#39 Mr. Scot

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

I'm curious as to why they didn't poll the other seven states :unsure:

#40 Kurb

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

Posted Image

#41 Chimera

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:46 AM

just to throw it out there, the republic of kiribati has no guns on the islands outside of what's carried by a very small military; police only carry batons, and they have one of the highest population densities in the world.

there is currently one guy in jail for murder.


350 per square mile?

Just for comparison sake... New Jersey's population density is 1189 per square mile

And that one guy must've been pretty busy, as the nation averages 7 homicides per year.
http://www.gunpolicy...region/kiribati


#42 PhillyB

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

350 per square mile?

Just for comparison sake... New Jersey's population density is 1189 per square mile

And that one guy must've been pretty busy, as the nation averages 7 homicides per year.
http://www.gunpolicy...region/kiribati


nice work. i was lazy and inarticulate.

the population density is specifically for the main island of tarawa, rather than the insular spread of islands that make up the kiribati diaspora... some of those far-flung islands are sparsely inhabited (or uninhabited) and really skew the numbers. anywhere in betio or bairiki or the ouskirts of it (or really anywhere between the docks at betio and the north end of the atoll) is obscenely dense.

i stayed in this bwia-bwia (stilted hut) with two other guys and it was a pretty high standard of living. just out of sight of this photo are two more of these about the same size that fit families of six and seven people, all immediately adjacent to one another.

Posted Image



re: the murder statistics, one of the guys in the neighboring bwia-bwia was a ranking official in the atoll's police force and he was a great source of information (though his english was pretty limited.) the guy in jail was there for stomping on a guy's neck in a bar fight and killing him... dude was a phenomenal tattoo artist (the convict) and actually did some work on my brother-in-law from inside the cell.

anyway i don't have anything to refute your statistics as mine were based on what's proved to be faulty anecdotal evidence, so i'll gladly concede the point. it is still interesting to note, regardless, an incredibly low murder-per-capita rate.

#43 carpantherfan84

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

I was replying before you added the last bit... but...

There is a reason that most places have waiting periods and background checks (IF the people purchase legally) for handguns. This is to curb any potential situation that leads to malicious desire to purchase said firearm.

Obviously, people who still harbor feelings strong enough to shoot themselves after that period is up, or after even 6 years, are too far gone to be saved.



I dont claim to be an expert on suicides but in my profession there are a lot of studies on suicide and the causes/prevention of. We are taught that generally those that have suicidal thoughts are as a rule not in any way mentally different than those that are not. Basically meaning they are not crazy. Everyone experiences stress in life and we all have a breaking point. We all will respond differently to that breaking point. Some may never experience a situation that gets them to their individual breaking point. All that falls under the cause portion.

As far as prevention it is proven on numerous occasions that suicidal ideations tend to be temporary and if you remove the opportunity to actually commit the act, any suicidal person can be helped and made unsuicidal. Now this is hard to test if you believe that the only real suicidal people are the ones that succeed in killing themselves.

#44 cookinwithgas

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:14 PM

This makes too much sense!

#45 AR-15 Panther

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:52 PM

Freedom is for suckers, strip our rights and make us safe. Suicide is so much worse than democide.

Fear, the downfall of the USA.....






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