Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

A good explanation of the numbers...


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Zod

Zod

    YOUR RULER

  • MFCEO
  • 20,086 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:17 AM

From reddit, I know its blocked for some people at work so I pasted here. From "allsecretsknown" on reddit...


Anyone around here have the slightest bit of accounting experience? No? Didn't think so.

1.) In 2010 the team heavily cut salary in preparation for the lockout, hence the huge upswing on "operating" profit.
Operating profit != permanent cash in the bank, it is positive cash flow for that season alone. The lockout itself had the potential to wipe out an entire season of games with the way the feelings between ownership and players were going into the lockout, so Richardson had the team shed salary in order to build up a cash balance to fallback on in case games were lost. Obviously, they weren't, but a $78 million operating profit (including revenue sharing) is NOT a yearly profit take for any NFL franchise. Once games resumed and the Panthers started handing out huge contracts to the likes of DeAngelo Williams, that operating profit figure shriveled. What fans tend to forget about signing bonuses, is that while their hit can be spread over up to five years of the contract, they are paid immediately and come directly out of the team's operating cash reserves. The Panthers went into 2010 with $70 million because they didn't pay anyone, but in 2011 they handed out over $50 million in signing bonuses.

2.) One of the biggest reasons Richardson horded cash before the lockout was so, unlike many other NFL owners, he wouldn't have to fire or impose salary cuts on the hundreds of non-player employees in the Panthers organization. Contrast that with the owners who suspended the pay of their entire scouting departments and forced people to look for temporary jobs or new ones entirely.

3.) A payout of $15 million split between Richardson and his collection of minority owners, which is itself an infrequent occurrence (generally NFL teams pay out to their minor investors only once every three years, or even not all in some cases) from a business worth around a billion dollars is laughable in comparison to the compensation prevalent in other businesses of comparable size. You're basically talking about splitting a mid-tier free agent's signing bonus amongst twelve to fifteen people.

4.) This is classic case of cherry-picking numbers to fit a narrative. Revenue numbers have been widely available for one of the league's premiere teams in the Green Bay Packers because they are publicly owned and any reasonable review of their numbers over the last half-decade shows, that while owners are not poverty-stricken by any stretch, they also do not have operating margins that a typical business the size of the NFL would usually have. Where people get on their high horses about the money that teams make is that they find it offensive that teams rake in healthy profits from a business structure that they assume is invulnerable to losing money, which is simply not true: there is no guarantee that the league will continue to be wildly profitable and successful, and there loom some very dangerous dark clouds like the former player lawsuits on the horizon.

5.) Where Deadspin really shows their ass is in regards to Richardson's asking for funds from the city of Charlotte for stadium renovations. First off, the stadium itself was built with barely any public money (the city contributed free land and some infrastructure guarantees) and the figure being requested now is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the figures commanded by other franchises in the NFL. Could the Panthers afford to swing the $140 million themselves? Maybe, but it would require either the majority of their operating income and hampering their future operating cash flow, or taking out a loan. Contrary to what people think, loans for sports franchises are not considered low-risk in the financial realm, which is why the NFL's low-interest loan system even exists. The other aspect to the request for funds is that it gives Richardson a legal mechanism to tie the Panthers to Charlotte for the life of the taxpayer's funding in the likely case he dies soon and the team is sold to a new owner (Richardson seems to have given up on passing the team to his sons, who feuded in their earlier tenures with the franchise.) He wants the team to stay in Carolina, and getting the city and state to kickback a hundred million compared to their estimated $800 million in tax revenue the team has generated in its tenure is not anywhere near as dastardly as the con job pulled on the Minnesota taxpayers over the Vikings potential move to LA.

6.) The lockout wasn't about teams running into the red. They absolutely played poverty-stricken and milked the sob story, but it wasn't about losing money. It was about the fact that the NFL is about to reach it's saturation point in the U.S. market and teams are no longer guaranteed ever-increasing revenues at the rates they had been achieving them through the 90s and 2000s. The CBA as written before depended on ever-climbing salary caps, and the league was about to hit a period where there weren't going to be any for a while. So, the owners and the players bitched about it all for a while, and that was that. The owners came out on the sweet end of the deal, if only because the slow return from the recession will make the austerity level revenue numbers they were turning during the lockout evolve into extremely healthy profits. However, the new salary cap floor will likely stunt profit growths as well.

If anyone actually gave a good goddamn about what the fuck these numbers meant it wouldn't be a story, but it's Deadspin so, whatever.

#2 Panthro

Panthro

    aka Pablo

  • Moderators
  • 23,993 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:25 AM

It's a story only because its the NFL, the secretiveness of the Panthers, and they just asked for public money.



#3 MHS831

MHS831

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,048 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:25 AM

I have never felt that RIchardson and the team is out to manipulate the community--that is just bad business. Even if there are no accountants here, there are people who know how this organization is run and this is not the way Richardson and the organization does business.
People want to think that JR is cheap and greedy. We usually have one of the highest cap figures in the NFL. Do the Maff people.

#4 jtm

jtm

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,640 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:57 AM

I have no problem with the numbers and I didn't think they were exorbitant at all - Panthers are a billion dollar company.

#5 CatMan72

CatMan72

    KEEP POUNDING

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,186 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:05 AM

Did anyone think the Panthers were asking for public money because they couldn't afford it?

#6 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,390 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:15 AM

Did anyone think the Panthers were asking for public money because they couldn't afford it?

just the whiny bitches.

i thought they made it plain that the reason they were going about things like they were was so the panthers would have a tie to the carolinas and the city and state would have a stake in it.

#7 catfang

catfang

    Senior Member

  • ALL-PRO
  • 6,392 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

While I keep going back and forth on giving the Panthers public money, there are some things I'm certain of:

1) I hate Richardson for tanking the 2010 season, as a fan. From a business owner's perspective I can see it differently.
2) I hate Richardson for signing ridiculous contracts in 2011 that are now hampering and will continue to hamper the teams efforts to put a winning team on the field.
3) The timing of asking for public money (which compared to other teams, is not a bad deal) and the release of this report couldn't be worse. Wonder who leaked it?

#8 Panthro

Panthro

    aka Pablo

  • Moderators
  • 23,993 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:19 AM

just the whiny bitches.

i thought they made it plain that the reason they were going about things like they were was so the panthers would have a tie to the carolinas and the city and state would have a stake in it.


Hook Line and Sinker

#9 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,390 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:42 AM

Hook Line and Sinker

grrrr...big company evil. money bad. capitalism = satan.

did he rape the city/state/taxpayers when he had that stadium built to begin with like most other NFL franchises? the answer is no. did psl owners get raped? maybe, but they volunteered for it. the risk of this being a sucky franchise was always there.

meh....don't really care either way. not a psl owner. don't live in charlotte. may have been other reasons as well but all of them ones that made sense from a business standpoint and that any saavy business owner would have done. JR and the panthers have done more for the area than most franchises in sports mainly because they haven't asked nearly as much from their communities as others did and they waited nearly 20 years before asking for any significant amount of money...which is still quite a bit less than most doing big renovations.

you don't like that some big evil nfl franchise and their owner asks for money from taxpayers? move and don't live in areas like that. no one is forcing you to live in some high tax area.

#10 Panthro

Panthro

    aka Pablo

  • Moderators
  • 23,993 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:47 AM

When did I say corporations are evil or making money? lol

So I have to move because i am voicing my opinion on giving the Panthers money?

Why don't you move here an pay for it all if you support it....same bad logic

The panthers tug at the heart strings of sports fans...thats fine just admit it. To think they are some magnaimous organization above criticism is quite humorous

#11 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,390 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

So I have to move because i am voicing my opinion on giving the Panthers money?

Why don't you move here an pay for it all if you support it....same bad logic

did i say you had to move? it was just a friendly suggestion to help out your ulcer. if you're gonna choose to live in an area that does that, then you got to deal with it...or don't and live grumpy or get some xanax. whatever, it's your choice.

me moving there? nah...I'll pass. i don't like living in crowded areas with high tax rates and crime rates. I'll gladly let others do that if they choose to put up with all that crap.

#12 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,390 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:10 AM

When did I say corporations are evil or making money? lol

So I have to move because i am voicing my opinion on giving the Panthers money?

Why don't you move here an pay for it all if you support it....same bad logic

The panthers tug at the heart strings of sports fans...thats fine just admit it. To think they are some magnaimous organization above criticism is quite humorous

lol since you went back an edited it....who said they were above criticism? i get accused of criticizing them too much. i said this was saavy, even tugging on heart strings or whatever. i would have played it the same way. still doesn't mean there isn't some sincerity to him wanting to do what it takes and go to these measures to keep the team that he built in the area he loves. and it also doesn't take away from the fact that he's waited nearly 20 years before asking for a significant contribution from the community, unlike most franchises. imo, the region got off cheap if they want to have a team in the area. and if people don't like living in areas where they are asked to pay for something they don't use or appreciate, then don't do it. don't live there. again, just a friendly and sensible suggestion.

#13 SCP

SCP

    Crop Dusting Son of a Bitch

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,312 posts
  • LocationOn a Sales Call

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:12 AM

This thread should be stickied

#14 MHS831

MHS831

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,048 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

The Panthers are the Golden Goose that turned uptown Charlotte into a real and vibrant city. It caused businesses to buy warehouses. It turned vacant lots into condos. This is not about funding a profitable business, it is about keeping the golden goose here for a decade or more.

#15 panther4life

panther4life

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,654 posts

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

I don't blame Jerry for asking for the money or think he's a jerk for doing so. At the same time I think the Gov. made a good decision in rejecting his request for the money. I also think Mayor Foxx was right to back the city funded portion.

So basically I think everybody has made a good decision so far, except for the media who is playing the role of skip bayless and stirring the pot to troll those to lazy to understand the facts.

I also finally cared or understand why JR wants the team sold within 2 years of his death. You need 1 leader as an owner not bickering kids(yes his fired sons)struggling for power and running the team into the ground.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com