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Full Disclosure: I CAN'T Get a Job


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#1 Proudiddy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

Or at least not the ones I expect.

But, I'm willing to lay my pride and pretensions down as a college educated man to admit that I'm struggling. If you have the time, please take a seat and read my novel.

I'll try to give a brief synopsis here, but you all know I'm wordy... (Skip to the paragraph below the stars if you want to cut through the initial layer of fat for the sub-layer of fat, before you get to the meat of it.)

So, I'm the first in my family to graduate from a university. I come from a bright family - my sisters and I were all in the academically gifted programs growing up, but we seemed to be victims of circumstance. My family just didn't aspire to much and therefore, college seemed like something foreign unless we "earned" our own way there through scholarships or what have you. Other than that, we were on our own and destined for a life of factory work.

My wife changed my life and made me aspire for more. She encouraged me to take advantage of my abilities and go to school, so I did. I initially went in thinking business... The longer I was in, I thought "well, that's a generic, broad-reaching degree. I'll just go for something I love and know about." So, once I was accepted into UNC-CH, I went in as a Sports Administration major, thinking I would be happy with ending up at the least as a AD at a high school helping kids and being involved in sports.

There was a lot of elbow rubbing and brown nosing required in that field, and it just didn't sit well with me. So, planning ahead, I figured I would just go into something else I love and hopefully, boost my GPA up with plans of going to law school. So, I switched to Communications with a sub-track in Media Studies and Production. I view my film making, script writing, and other creative ventures to be a personal endeavor, rather than a money maker... Although, one day it could be. For the time being, I just want to make some money and let my other interests evolve outside of that.


********************************************************************************************************************
Now, that leads me to this point. I graduated in December 2011. I've been staying at home with our children while my wife works as a speech therapist. After doing more research, I have pretty much decided against law school because they don't seem to do a very good job of guaranteeing job placement once you have your JD. I was going to go into sports agency, but that seems very hit or miss, so I don't know if it's worth the time.

So now, my plan is to get another degree - an IT degree (should take me about 3 semesters) to put in my back pocket, and then either go back for a MBA as I don't need any prerequisites to get into the program OR go back and get another bachelor's in engineering. Problem with the engineering degree is that I would basically have to do 3 years for it because it's a math and science-heavy track and I graduated with a BA. Definitely feels like I'm taking some steps back if I do it, but I have a guarantee from an in-law to get a good job as soon as I'm done, as that is the field he is in.

For the time being, I'm trying to find a job to help out until I start school back (either in the summer or fall). Ideally, I'd like to hold the job once I start school back. Problem is, I CAN'T GET ONE. I've always killed it in in-person interviews, but that was back as a young kid destined for a career in nothing, because that's what I was groomed for coming from my social class. I'm dealing with different people now and I have a Napoleon Complex as a result.

So, when I'm going into interviews with private financial service companies, I almost feel out of place when my pre-college work history is filled with manual labor, slave-like jobs and it serves me no good when interviewing for these professional jobs. I hate "networking" or the whole concept of "faking it until you make it," but I'm capable of doing it and fluidly "fitting in" with whatever crowd I'm around. BUT, as a result of my disposition regarding those matters, I don't "know" anyone who could help me currently, and I'm seeing more and more that everything is about "who you know."

I've even applied for retail/grocery management positions with the memories of those positions being handed out like candy to college grads while I was busting my hump as a dropout years ago, but now everyone "promotes from within" and want people with managerial experience. Don't get me wrong, I guess that was like a "heat check" applying for those positions because it's not like I planned on making a career out of them, I just wanted to see if I could get them. Nope. BUT, I have been offered a couple of gigs from those stores for $8.50 an hour, which is what I made BEFORE I WENT TO fuging COLLEGE, lol.

There's always exclusive stuff for people holding a bachelors, like Enterprise's Management Trainee program, but forgive me for my arrogance, but I'm not washing cars and cleaning toilets in a suit and tie... I got enough of that as a teen, and I didn't go to school to do that again.

So, now, here I am... Every professional interview I go to, I feel like I'm rejected because of the background I come from and an unfamiliarity with the environment, which doesn't translate well when you have Archibald Moneybags Jr. coming in with his resume filled with a who's who that his daddy set him up with. Additionally, I don't have any real professional experience so it's hard to sell myself when they ask about a specific time I did something to help "my team" or "completed a project." BUT, all I need is a chance. And then there is any heat check interview I go on for jobs supposedly below me where I end up getting rejected because I suspect that they don't want to pay me or they sort of have some kind of disdain for me because I represent the other side of life with my college education. It's like the grocery/retail people want to see me squirm and accept something to humble me. It's a joke.

I've went on 3 interviews with grocery/retail and have been rejected each time. I've only been called in for one professional interview for two different positions, and so far I didn't get one position and have yet to hear back about the other and it's been over a week now. I've been offered crap jobs for almost minimum wage over the phone and I declined obviously. And I'm waiting to hear back after my initial phone interview which went well with another professional company for a sales position, but that job requires tons of travel and I don't like the prospect of being away from my wife and children so much.

I feel like I'm in no man's land. Any ideas? Suggestions? Help? It sucks, and I've never been rejected this much in my life, which has been tough on me.

WHEW. Good to get it off my chest. Now, I fully expect the "tl;dr"s or no responses whatsoever.

#2 chknwing

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

come work at dish. you start off at $14.5/hr. paid training. Only qualifications is good driving record, HS diploma/ged, and can lift 100 pounds. You will work 4 days a week, normally about 11 hrs a day. full benefits and $70 credit per month to go toward your dish tv bill. you can earn up to a $200 bonus each check based on your productivity. There are many other perks such as discounts on cell phone etc. I receive an 18% discount with sprint for being a dish employee. Dish is always hiring and the office is located off of Tyvola in charlotte. you can go here to apply. http://careers.dish.com/

#3 Inimicus

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:49 PM

I dont know what to tell you to to but Ill offer the advice that I think the IT degree is a bad idea and just another point of frustration for you.

I'm an IT Director for a moderately sized international non profit. When we are hiring IT staff I have the final word.

If I put out an ad this afternoon for IT staff I would have 100 CVs to look at by this time tomorrow and the overwhelming majority of them would have undergrad degrees in technology of one flavor or another. And I dont care. It might get you past the HR screening but if you cant tell me what you love about it computers and why you cant help but pick up every discarded PC you pass to add to your home network I'm really not interested.

I talk to lots of folks in my position and unless you just want to end up on someones help desk talking to people who dont realize that the monitor has a power switch too that undergrad degree isn't going to get you much more than a handshake and a business card.

Spend your time and money on a different degree. The IT market is currently flooded with overly talented people working at well below their skill cap just to have a job and compete with the H1B visa holders.


And I honestly wish you luck in finding a gig that suits you.

#4 Doyle

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

I hate to be blunt but you are not going to get the ideal job right off the bat. The college degree is not a bypass around low paying job. If you are bright, and it sounds like you are, the $8.50 an hour job at a grocery store shouldn't take you long to start moving up the ladder and then you will have experience on your resume.

#5 mr beauxjangles

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

My first advice is to stop thinking about school. You mentioned law school, engineering, MBA programs, an IT degree...and that doesn't include your indecision regarding your first bachelors degree. Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you don't know what you want. Only then can you know what you NEED to get there. In many cases, another degree isn't the answer. I needed a BA and a very specialized MA program to get me the credentials to start the career I wanted where I wanted. But that's not true for everyone. Getting a degree for a degree's sake is a waste of money. Especially now.

I know you know this. And I know that's the frustrating part - you want to get some experience, figure out what the next step is as far as education is concerned, and go from there...but you're having trouble getting your foot in the door to get that new experience.

My advice, is try one or all of the following:

1) Spend more time with friends that can help your career and for those that you are really close friends with, specifically ask them to let you know when they are going out for happy hour or having drinks with people that you don't know, but might get along with. Don't be afraid to be honest with your friends that you would like to meet more people that could open doors for you. Drinking a beer after work shouldn't be "networking" but it provides the same benefit. It might not pay off tomorrow, but in two or three years, you might have a much bigger network of friends and acquaintances that will think of you when they know of a job opening.

2) Hire a recruiter. They'll improve your resume and customize it for different jobs.

3) Get your resume in the hands of recruiters. The more people that have your resume on file, the better.

4) Go visit your local chamber of commerce. Some of them suck royally, and I don't know where you're from. But I work with a lot of chambers around the country, and the good ones will welcome anyone and everyone when they walk in. They are in the business of helping their members, and an increasingly large number of chambers are actively involved in workforce development, and talent attraction/retention efforts. Many have lists of jobs available with their membership/investors, jobs that may not be posted publicly. Give them your resume. Ask if they are having any career fairs. I know it sounds cheesy, but the people at job fairs are there to fill positions quickly. The Austin Chamber hosted a job fair at SXSW last year and filled 2,000 positions paying more than $50,000/year in a matter of days.

5) Get the irrelevant stuff off your resume. Even if it means showing no experience, don't include anything irrelevant to the job you are applying for. So if you worked in retail or grocery during college, and you are applying for a job in financial services, get it off your resume unless it was a management position.

6) If you know that you want to pursue a certain career, join a relevant professional association. Many have young professional or student rates. Attend their events. I know you said you hate networking, but these events can be helpful in a lot of ways. And more than just networking, fork up for their training/certification. This can be more valuable than a degree in many cases, and FAR less expensive. And you'll meet a lot of people at various points in their careers. It's a good way to make friends in the business. Not business contacts, but legitimate friends. Those are the people that get you jobs, not Bob Dickheadguy that you rubbed elbows with at some networking event.

#6 Proudiddy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for the feed back Chkn, I may look into it.

I dont know what to tell you to to but Ill offer the advice that I think the IT degree is a bad idea and just another point of frustration for you.

I'm an IT Director for a moderately sized international non profit. When we are hiring IT staff I have the final word.

If I put out an ad this afternoon for IT staff I would have 100 CVs to look at by this time tomorrow and the overwhelming majority of them would have undergrad degrees in technology of one flavor or another. And I dont care. It might get you past the HR screening but if you cant tell me what you love about it computers and why you cant help but pick up every discarded PC you pass to add to your home network I'm really not interested.

I talk to lots of folks in my position and unless you just want to end up on someones help desk talking to people who dont realize that the monitor has a power switch too that undergrad degree isn't going to get you much more than a handshake and a business card.

Spend your time and money on a different degree. The IT market is currently flooded with overly talented people working at well below their skill cap just to have a job and compete with the H1B visa holders.


And I honestly wish you luck in finding a gig that suits you.

Well, I was just operating off of the idea that it is among the best value degrees in terms of time spent getting the degree and pay you get upon immediately entering into the work force. Because I already have a bachelors, it would only take me 2 or 3 semesters, and at the least give me a higher paying job to work while I'm in school for my MBA or engineering.

I get what you're saying though. I was looking specifically at the Computer Sciences track.

I hate to be blunt but you are not going to get the ideal job right off the bat. The college degree is not a bypass around low paying job. If you are bright, and it sounds like you are, the $8.50 an hour job at a grocery store shouldn't take you long to start moving up the ladder and then you will have experience on your resume.

Yeah, I was told that. But man, I just have a huge complex about that. I was the guy that managers always assigned to the worst jobs. I was almost killed in a factory when I was 21 getting paid $6.00 an hour by a company that ended up getting shut down locally for OSHA violations and for illegally stealing employee's money back from them for being late.

I've seen the bottom and I worked harder than anyone while I was there. I have no reservations in saying that. That's why I went to school, so I could change that power dynamic. I wanted authority and now I have some. I get what you're saying but man, I almost get emotional just thinking back to the crap I went through working before I went to college. And I HAD to work because my parents didn't buy me anything outside of like 2 outfits for school. I almost shudder at the idea of working in a position that is the equivalent of what I held prior to college. I'm not saying I'm right, but I just fear they won't follow through on their end if I took such a position and then I'll go into rage against the machine mode like I usually did, lol.

#7 Cyberjag

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

The only degree worth a damn that you listed is an engineering one. IT degrees are a dime a dozen, and MBAs and Law degrees are saturated to the point of being worthless.

Do you just want a job? Or is there something that you actually want to do some day, that you hope you can work toward?

#8 Panthro

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:22 PM

sales.

#9 Kurb

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

I almost get emotional just thinking back to the crap I went through working before I went to college.


I'm gonna be real with ya and I know (because I have known you long enough on this forum to know ya a little) that what I'm going to say is going to make you mad, then make you think. So sit down and listen.


No one fuging cares what you have been through, how hard you have worked, what you have done to get where you are, or any of that. They just don't. It's life and that's that.

Now, take a deep breath and keep reading.

Your "Real Life" experience gives you power, perhaps even more than your degree. Keep trying to better yourself, but understand that even now, after all you have done, the person who will have the most respect for what you have done is you.


I was set, making decent yet really dependable money life was good. Then I got railroaded by the good old State of NC. I along with several of my peer's were abandon by those who should have fought for us and just like that my "perfect" little career was gone. I had 3 months severance and started applying to jobs I "Should" get. Things I "deserved" because of my experience, age, degree w/e. None of them called back.

So I ended up on un-employment. I didn't take that well. Especially considering my first kid was on the way. So I ended up taking a job operating the Wrightsville Beach Draw Bridge. Swinging shifts, pay was exactly 100$ more a month than what unemployment paid. Roughly 28k a year, a exceptional paycut from my previous work.

At first glace you would think this was a difficult job. It was not. My new "peers" consisted of a retired factory worker who had been writing a novel for a decade, a slightly mentally handicapped man who I think ran over someone on the way to work one day, and a Russian Woman who could barely speak English. There I was, young, smart, strikingly good looking, college educated, and working a job that required me to sound a horn, and flip some switches. I worked that job for the better part of a year. I thought about killing myself, I was actually worth more in life insurance than I was working there and my family (wife/kid) would be set for a good long time. But I kept applying to jobs, but now I had a "currently working at". had some great conversations with interviewers about the bridge, usually they were impressed by the fact I was working so I wouldn't be drawing on the "system" and eventually I got a better position than the one I was first laid off from.

You have taken lumps in your life, I get that. Here is the thing. In some fashion most everyone has. Granted people that come from our "class" (I grew up on a farm, i get it) usually have more lumps than most, but we are better for it.

I know you have a kid or 2. Think about the example you can set to them. Dad worked at the Grocery store to make sure we had even nicer stuff, while he found his way to the exceptionally cool job he has now. Don't think for a second I wont remind my son where I was working the day he was born.


You have enough reasons to not be mad, swallow some pride and climb ladders.

Diamonds require lots of pressure and time.


I think what chknwing mentioned would be excellent for you right now. Good money, Rewarding work, Plus you get a day off a week to do extra classes, certs, or job interviews.

JMO, Wish you the best brother.



**Edit**
And just to show you I practice what I preach, while I have a pie job right now getting bills paid and living well, I'm currently working with some kind friends to learn a completely different skill set where I can hopefully push my career even higher and provide an even greater standard of worklife and living for my family.

XOXO
Kurb

#10 Brooklyn Bully

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

I read about a sentence. All I can tell you is that if you're wife can continue what she's doing someplace else, the best way to get a job is to move somewhere that has more of them. Raleigh and Charlotte just aren't that big, if you live in one of them currently. If you have kids, they'll be fine. Think about it.

#11 NanceUSMC

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

Lots of people going through very similar things right now... I've walked that road, no less than 3 times in the last 6 years... Same story as everyone else... I was sending out somewhere in the range of 100 resumes weekly from various sites (I'm in IT and agree totally with Inimicus)... I'd get a call back once in a while, but always seemed to be the 'other' candidate... I can also say I share many of the frustrations Kurb mentioned... I had to swallow my pride, and go back to work making pizzas... Eventually I was able to land a contract IT job doing some installs for a hospital... I was told that there was no chance it would go permanent, and not to get my hopes up... BUT, I also knew that if I came in, worked harder than anyone, and showed what kind of employee I am, that if and when they had a position open up, I would at least be in the conversation... 2 weeks before my contract ended, someone quit, and I was hired to replace him...

Don't close any doors, and search under any stone... Unfortunately there are no secrets to finding a job right now... You have to be more lucky than good, but it WILL turn out in your favor... You just have to push forward... Stock shelves... Flip burgers... Clean offices... Whatever it takes to get you through... But never stop looking until you're past this patch... And you will get past it... Just don't stop...

Apply to anything you'd even remotely qualify for, or be interested in, because at the end of the day a recruiter is going to see your resume and submit you for the job he/she thinks you'd fit in and not always the one you app'd for... So, even if you don't qualify totally, send the resume in... Drop them en masse, and see what sticks against the wall... You may fail 2000 times, but it only takes one for you to get out of this...

I wish there were better wisdom I could empart, or a magic wand to fix all this... Just remember you're not alone in this, and that the absolute worst that can happen ain't all that bad... You will get through...

#12 Kurb

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

Want to know who will hire you PDiddy?

The guy who has worked his way to be in position to hire YOU for a that dream job, that has walked a similar road. That person is out there a lot more than you realize. He won't hire you however if you have some chip on your shoulder and aren't trying to do everything possible to keep the shelves stocked at home.

Not trying to be mean, just real talk dude.


~Edit

I guess I contradicted my self, but yeah Im right and stuff.

#13 Proudiddy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

I'm gonna be real with ya and I know (because I have known you long enough on this forum to know ya a little) that what I'm going to say is going to make you mad, then make you think. So sit down and listen.


No one fuging cares what you have been through, how hard you have worked, what you have done to get where you are, or any of that. They just don't. It's life and that's that.

Now, take a deep breath and keep reading.

Your "Real Life" experience gives you power, perhaps even more than your degree. Keep trying to better yourself, but understand that even now, after all you have done, the person who will have the most respect for what you have done is you.


I was set, making decent yet really dependable money life was good. Then I got railroaded by the good old State of NC. I along with several of my peer's were abandon by those who should have fought for us and just like that my "perfect" little career was gone. I had 3 months severance and started applying to jobs I "Should" get. Things I "deserved" because of my experience, age, degree w/e. None of them called back.

So I ended up on un-employment. I didn't take that well. Especially considering my first kid was on the way. So I ended up taking a job operating the Wrightsville Beach Draw Bridge. Swinging shifts, pay was exactly 100$ more a month than what unemployment paid. Roughly 28k a year, a exceptional paycut from my previous work.

At first glace you would think this was a difficult job. It was not. My new "peers" consisted of a retired factory worker who had been writing a novel for a decade, a slightly mentally handicapped man who I think ran over someone on the way to work one day, and a Russian Woman who could barely speak English. There I was, young, smart, strikingly good looking, college educated, and working a job that required me to sound a horn, and flip some switches. I worked that job for the better part of a year. I thought about killing myself, I was actually worth more in life insurance than I was working there and my family (wife/kid) would be set for a good long time. But I kept applying to jobs, but now I had a "currently working at". had some great conversations with interviewers about the bridge, usually they were impressed by the fact I was working so I wouldn't be drawing on the "system" and eventually I got a better position than the one I was first laid off from.

You have taken lumps in your life, I get that. Here is the thing. In some fashion most everyone has. Granted people that come from our "class" (I grew up on a farm, i get it) usually have more lumps than most, but we are better for it.

I know you have a kid or 2. Think about the example you can set to them. Dad worked at the Grocery store to make sure we had even nicer stuff, while he found his way to the exceptionally cool job he has now. Don't think for a second I wont remind my son where I was working the day he was born.


You have enough reasons to not be mad, swallow some pride and climb ladders.

Diamonds require lots of pressure and time.


I think what chknwing mentioned would be excellent for you right now. Good money, Rewarding work, Plus you get a day off a week to do extra classes, certs, or job interviews.

JMO, Wish you the best brother.



**Edit**
And just to show you I practice what I preach, while I have a pie job right now getting bills paid and living well, I'm currently working with some kind friends to learn a completely different skill set where I can hopefully push my career even higher and provide an even greater standard of worklife and living for my family.

XOXO
Kurb


Nah Kurb, that didn't anger me at all man. I can't, nor do I feel like writing here, the depths I experienced throughout my journey, but along the way, that was the one thing that hit me harder than anything - NO ONE CARES. To which I adopted the philosophy, "NO EXCUSES." I got to where I just preferred not to even small talk unless absolutely necessary because I didn't want to venture off into semi-psycho babble about where I came from and what I have to overcome. And of course, there is ALWAYS someone worse off than you, so I never wanted to give the impression that I was overdramatic or self-victimizing.

But, I guess the time to myself now has led me to overanalyze things even more so than I usually do. It's tough man.

But, I'm with you. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to read what I wrote and respond in detail with your story man. That is awesome. I just told mr beauxjangles in a PM that I'm just considering giving a Will Smith from The Pursuit of Happyness speech in my interviews, lol.

But seriously, I'm keeping my nose to the grindstone and praying and hoping for the best. I think it's just more of an internal struggle now, because while I know others don't care about what you've done to get where you are, the time to myself has caused me to put even more weight into my story. I have to get past that myself, and in this discussion, it's kind of become clear that it is holding me back to some degree.

Your story reminds me of so many of the places I was at before I started school so it really resonates with me man. I'd never consider suicide because I just couldn't do that to my wife and children, but I've certainly been down lately - I just want to sleep, cover the windows, turn all of the lights off, and lay in the bed. In being real with myself, I keep going to that "what have you done with your life to get to this point" place because I'm not getting the jobs... But, then I remember all the tough times before my wife and kids, back when I felt like the worst someone could do was kill me, and they might have been doing me a favor - that mindset. And it kind of shakes me back to reality in knowing, I have plenty to be thankful for, I just have to keep grinding and I guess eat some humble pie.

Sorry for the Dr. Phil moments sprinkled throughout this post, as I know the Huddle has grown away from personal, real, intimate discussions... But, yeah... Thanks man. I must give you a brohug one day, that almost brought tears to my eyes buddy.

EDIT: Oh, and I wanted to point out for clarification as well. My wife makes good enough for us to live well and comfortably (she had her masters in speech pathology) and she is always getting more options made available to her, but things are starting to feel a little tight and I just feel like less of a man not working. She's fine with it, because it does save us money for me to stay at home with our two younger children, but we could use more money and I just want to contribute and get back out there, at the very least, from a social aspect.

#14 Kurb

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

This is like an "old huddle" thread.

*its dusty in here*

#15 NanceUSMC

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

Nah Kurb, that didn't anger me at all man. I can't, nor do I feel like writing here, the depths I experienced throughout my journey, but along the way, that was the one thing that hit me harder than anything - NO ONE CARES.



It's not so much that no one cares... It's more that they've heard the same story from their sister, their cousin, their best friend, their uncle's girlfriend... maybe they had a 'black monday' at work and lost a few hundred employees to cut backs... They care, but they've heard the same story so many times, with absolutely nothing they can do about it... And even if you're telling someone who is in a position to be able to hire you, keep in mind they're hearing the same story from every person applying... They do care, but they're powerless to help, and have become desensitized to the hard times many are facing...


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