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More movement than normal this year?


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#13 thefuzz

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

Is it my imagination, or are more teams dumping their older starters this year than in years past? There seem to be a lot of reshuffling of more recognizable names going on than normal. If so, it could be a byproduct of teams dumping salary in reaction to the cap staying flat.

At any rate, it seems like a good year to look for temporary safety help, at least...



I think that you are pretty dead on it.

When Hurney and other GM's were "hoping" for the cap to go up, I was shaking my head not to do the things that they were doing.

It wasn't set in stone, and I knew that if it didn't happen, then we would be in this situation.

We are, and we aren't alone.

The big difference is some of the other teams have had better drafts, and had deeper rosters, we have not, and do not.

#14 rayzor

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

most teams were in cap trouble because they wrote checks thinking that the tv deals would have raised the cap higher earlier.

rookie cap makes draft picks nicer options and seeing them have success earlier makes older players with significant cap hits expendable.

teams fighting to make cap room cut loose a lot of decent, but overpriced and replaceable players, essentially flooding the market.

combine little cap space with flooded market and you get buyers market. gutted rosters have created holes so teams are forced to be more active than usual. players facing lots of competition on the open market forces the prices to come down and it also eliminates the pressure for teams to pick up players right away, although a few teams have been too short sighted to notice this.

take CBs for example. i saw reports this morning saying that only 5 of 30 available CBs have been picked up so far and the average cost per year has gone from $5mil/yr to $3mil/yr. jason cole tweeted that the bottom has dropped out of the CB market. what we did in picking up florence yesterday helped set the stage (along with other contracts from other teams) for the going price of CBs.

and the same thing is being done with other positions, tho probably not as dramatic as it is with CBs. munnerlynn will be a whole lot more affordable next week than he was at the start of FA. same with most players that are available.

it seems like there's more activity than usual and there might be, but it's not nearly as active as it could be with all the roster spots available throughout the league and the amount of talent that is available. the reason is most teams understand that they can comfortably wait and the prices will drop on solid players.

#15 rayzor

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:50 AM

Suddenly I feel a lot better about Gettleman sitting back and waiting until the dust settles. There should be more quality FAs out there than normal. If our biggest loss is Gamble (who missed most of last year anyway), we could possibly go into the draft in better shape than we ended 2012 in.

i think gamble retired because he saw the writing on the wall as far as the market is concerned. it was almost going to be like going through the draft process all over again. he was going to have to fight with a ton of other CBs for limited spots and even more limited cap space. and then the reality that because of your age, you're looking at one or two year deals and spending the rest of your career as a journeyman.

it's just too much work when your other option is to retire comfortably without more wear and tear on your body.

#16 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:56 AM

You guys should probably get comfortable with the idea we don't sign Greg Hardy to a long term deal.

He might get tagged, but the best situation might be to trade him this season before the deadline for MOAR PICZ


I'd almost prefer this. Especially if Alexander makes some strides this year.

I love the Kraken like most everyone...but giving that dude a giant contract scares the poo out of me.

#17 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

In my opinion, there are two ways to go in regards to Hardy. One, we pay him. Two, you hope Alexander can replace him.

Option one can be done. But you only get so many big contracts anymore. Do you want to give one to Hardy? He is so versatile you would hate to lose him. But, If you can get a deal done, it probably is the right thing to do.

Option two is the cheaper way to go. Alexander does do a lot of the same things. Just not as well. But if he can take another step in the right direction, he can make losing Hardy a lot easier to take. The problem becomes. You have to have Alexanders' replacement on the team this year. So drafting a talented Dlineman this year could be an indication of future events.

You draft skill position players and hope they can replace your existing ones down the road. That is the only way you can afford to pay your stars. Too many stars cripple your cap as we see is the case. Or more to the point. Overpaying your stars can kill your future.

You fill out your roster with jag's, and if you can draft skill position players well, you should be good to go.

#18 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

i think gamble retired because he saw the writing on the wall as far as the market is concerned. it was almost going to be like going through the draft process all over again. he was going to have to fight with a ton of other CBs for limited spots and even more limited cap space. and then the reality that because of your age, you're looking at one or two year deals and spending the rest of your career as a journeyman.

it's just too much work when your other option is to retire comfortably without more wear and tear on your body.


I think you are partly right. However, Gamble would be a top level CB, he would still merit a decent contract. He was at the top of Polian's board before he retired. I would think he would still get a good pay day from some team.

But I think you are right in the fact that he just did not feel like going through the whole shop around for a job route. I also think that when TC rolls around and he is still retired, we could offer him a fair deal to come back. But then again, I still hold out hope the inlaws will some day accept me for who I am. So there you go.

Gamble was a cap cut, not a talent cut. This may not be the end of Gamble. Why not?

#19 rayzor

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

You guys should probably get comfortable with the idea we don't sign Greg Hardy to a long term deal.

He might get tagged, but the best situation might be to trade him this season before the deadline for MOAR PICZ

agreed. i absolutely love hardy, but i love the panthers more.

we only have room for one insanely priced DE, imo. we shouldn't have more than one insanely priced player at any position and even at that, the positions that we allow ourselves to have insanely priced players should be limited to just a few...mainly QB, DE, OT, and maybe MLB...but that's a discussion for another time.

we have charles johnson lined up for the next few years we'll have to let hardy go unless he's content with a bag of peanuts...which he might because he's kind of an odd bird, but you can't count on that. the good thing is we've got alexander waiting in the wings and we've got gettleman and rivera (well, that's assuming that rivera doesn't crap the bed again and get canned after another non-winning season) but i think we've got eyes good enough to spot decent talent to step in when needed.

i don't want to lose hardy, but if he gets expensive then we have to move on.

#20 TheRumGone

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

agreed. i absolutely love hardy, but i love the panthers more.

we only have room for one insanely priced DE, imo. we shouldn't have more than one insanely priced player at any position and even at that, the positions that we allow ourselves to have insanely priced players should be limited to just a few...mainly QB, DE, OT, and maybe MLB...but that's a discussion for another time.

we have charles johnson lined up for the next few years we'll have to let hardy go unless he's content with a bag of peanuts...which he might because he's kind of an odd bird, but you can't count on that. the good thing is we've got alexander waiting in the wings and we've got gettleman and rivera (well, that's assuming that rivera doesn't crap the bed again and get canned after another non-winning season) but i think we've got eyes good enough to spot decent talent to step in when needed.

i don't want to lose hardy, but if he gets expensive then we have to move on.


That would suck, but it is what great franchises do.

#21 rayzor

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:16 PM

That would suck, but it is what great franchises do.

hurney would NEVER do that.

loyalty to individual players with the team always trumped loyalty to the big picture and future of the team.

you've got to make sure you have a solid group of talent across the board rather than the imbalance that comes when you throw a ton of money to just a few players at just a couple positions.

balance and moderation is always crucial. it forces you to make tough decisions like with hardy, but in the long run it keeps you from situations like we are in now.

hurney said "you don't cut good players" but smart GMs realize that good players are also usually replaceable players and usually can be replaced with cheaper options. if a player demands more than they are worth, you should honor their self worth by letting them hit the market so they can get what they think they deserve...if they are truly worth it.

#22 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:21 AM

I'm not saying break the bank and cripple the franchise for Hardy, but hoping Alexander can duplicate his results is asking a bit much so far. I like Alexander, but he didn't look as good as Hardy or CJ in their rookie years in my opinion (I was big on both following their rookie years). Alexander looks like good rotational material, but I haven't seen a quality starter in him yet. Not saying it won't happen, but I sure as hell wouldn't wanna plan on letting Hardy go with Alexander as the replacement just yet. As has already been said, if Gettleman plays it smart he can extend Cam and Hardy both next year, before they're set to become FAs, and structure it so the cap hit is manageable at least at first. And signing them before the threat of FA should allow for a cheaper contract too. Neither seem like Chris Johnsons or Haynesworths who will start slacking once they get their money. They both seem to genuinely enjoy playing the game of football. As far as Hardy is concerned, last year was the floor of his potential development in my opinion and that's definitely something worth holding on to. I see no declines or slumps or any kind of regression from him until it's because of age/injuries.

#23 top dawg

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:09 AM

I'm not saying break the bank and cripple the franchise for Hardy, but hoping Alexander can duplicate his results is asking a bit much so far. I like Alexander, but he didn't look as good as Hardy or CJ in their rookie years in my opinion (I was big on both following their rookie years). Alexander looks like good rotational material, but I haven't seen a quality starter in him yet. Not saying it won't happen, but I sure as hell wouldn't wanna plan on letting Hardy go with Alexander as the replacement just yet. As has already been said, if Gettleman plays it smart he can extend Cam and Hardy both next year, before they're set to become FAs, and structure it so the cap hit is manageable at least at first. And signing them before the threat of FA should allow for a cheaper contract too. Neither seem like Chris Johnsons or Haynesworths who will start slacking once they get their money. They both seem to genuinely enjoy playing the game of football. As far as Hardy is concerned, last year was the floor of his potential development in my opinion and that's definitely something worth holding on to. I see no declines or slumps or any kind of regression from him until it's because of age/injuries.


Agreed.

Defense and consistent pressure on opposing QBs is something that helped the Giants win Super Bowls (as well as the Steelers). Call me crazy, but I think Gett has that same mind frame. I absolutely think that Hardy is a key element in a run to a championship, and Alexander has not yet shown us that his level of game is in the same league as the Kraken's. Consistent pressure, imo, is perhaps the most important way to deal with guys like Brees. It doesn't stop him completely, but it makes Breesus human. Pressure definitely turns Matty Ice into slush, and flat out makes Freeman look more like Vince Young than Vince Ferragamo (old schoolers). Moreover, his mere presence helps the entire defense including his teammate on the opposite side. Another good year by Hardy will undoubtedly put another type of pressure on CJ and the FO. One would have to think long and hard about who stays or goes (if it would come to that), and one would be faced with the real possibility of restructuring or getting capped (as the process of market correction will more than likely continue into next year's free agency, particularly with Gett at the helm). But, I still say we keep both at the end of the day.




Going off on a little tangent that may be a sign of things to come next year, look what Elway is saying about Dumervil's contract this year. So all of you who don't think that CJ's contract won't become an issue, or that he would never be cut or traded in favor of a cheaper Hardy or up-and-coming Alexander (if he shows marked improvement), you might want to think again. Gett comes from a different ilk than Hurney...