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Hardy and Lafell


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#37 CatMan72

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:57 PM

Yup, it's part of why Gettleman isn't out spending on FA right now...

#38 iamhubby1

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:09 PM

I understand where you are coming from. It is hard to eat your veggies when the other kids are chomping on candy bars. We are having to watch other teams get better (on paper, but not necessarily the ledger sheet paper) and it is hard. If Cole sticks, he is a genius. He is brilliant if Florence plays well. There is a good chance that is happening, but if not, so what? He is not guaranteeing $$. He is going to show us how to fill holes with no money.

The draft will be interesting. I expect to see a trade down if possible. SF has a ton of picks and would love a few players when we pick.


As to the draft. This is Gettlemen's first draft. He is a pro talent evaluator. From whom is he getting his feedback? I can see him doing his best to evaluate the first two rounds. It is those pesky later round picks where he will need the most helpl Where is that help coming from?

Other than that I am excited to see my team actually draft the BPA. And just who they think those guys are? Big guys, and TD makers. Lots to choose from in the first group, not so much with the second. All I know is that there will be much speculating round here til draft day cometh.

Personally, I would take the best DL available. Preferably one with the skills to play inside and outside. I want to perpetuate our DL strength. That way, when CJ needs to be replaced, we already have that guy.

Fill the grunts with low level FA and draft picks, so you can use those first two picks on ATHLETES. Ah hellz, draft the best efen athlete each and every pick. Winner. I figured it out.

What was the question?

#39 PhillyB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

if beason, gross, and d-will are gone at that point (or massively restructured) we'll have room to sign him. i don't see gettleman letting a premiere pass-rushing tandem go.

#40 iamcline

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:42 PM

At this rate, you let Lafell walk and give Hardy a extension.


This.

No reason to pay Lafell. He's been amazing in his role, but he'll never get top money here. Easier to find a #2 wide receiver than it is a premier pass rusher.

#41 carolina-chuck

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:52 PM

Why do you and other people keep worrying. Cam is not going no where. Cam will get paid and everything will be fine. Panthers would not waste a 1st round pick on him if they wasn't going to resign him after his rookie contract. Unless he all of a sudden he has a flop of a season and does bad. He will get paid and things will be good. Gettleman knows what he is doing. We don't. Let Gettleman do his job. Things will be ok in the near future for this team.


I'm not worrying about losing Cam. The NFL is a hard place to find a job. It's not like the NBA where the players has the leverage over the team. In the NFL, you take the first contract thrown at you or else you ain't going to find another one close to that.

I'm worry about retaining a guy like Hardy that we groomed into a damn good player. We're going to have to create a lot of room once Cam's contract is nearing.

#42 magnus

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

The rate we're going we might just cut, Gross and CJ. And still be over the cap.

not really. Gross, if he doesn't rework his contract, costs nothing to cut next year - he'll have a large salary, but no remaining bonus proration. CJ's another story - that contract will always be costly - but he's earning it.

About the rest of 2014 - assuming none of these players are cut now, by next year all of the 2011 contracts will have matured by a bit. The first three years of bonus will have counted, and making it to 2014 means that 2014's bonus proration counts in 2014 no matter what. So, the five year deals signed in 2011 are generally all cuttable, by definition.

So if the worst case scenario is that Rivera fails this team, you can get rid of the guys who aren't producing.

here's more on that.

#43 panthers55

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:57 PM

Here is the thing. With a flat cap next year there will be more guys out there to pick up driving prices down even more next year. Hardy might get a 4 or hopefully 5 year contract for 40 - 45 million with 25 guaranteed. With a 15 million signing bonus and the rest guaranteeing some of the salary he might have a cap hit of 4 million in 2014 and 6 or 7 in 2015. After that it goes up but so does the cap. It could cost more but not many players are getting the big money and it will be even tougher next year. All the better for the team and ultimately the fans.

#44 iamhubby1

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:31 PM

The good news. This is basically our last year of Hurneymagic. The load lessens easily next year, which will just add to the excitement.

The bad news. This is basically our last year of Hurneymagic. We have players, and contracts, that limit our manueverablity. Because of this, we are pretty much who we are. Which just adds to the melencholy atmosphere around here.

The good news. We are still a pretty good team. We very well could do good things this year.

The bad news. If we are going to be a very good team. We are going to have to do it with pretty much what we have. Maybe a cheap FA or two, and our draft picks, is about all we can expect this year.

The good news. For the Rivera lovers. If we can continue to trend upward as a team. He may just get to stick around.

The bad news. For the Rivera haters. If we don't continue to trend upward as a team. He may get the axe.

Damm I love this time of year.

#45 SIGCHI222

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

given a choice between the two...you do that.

lafell is basically moose-lite. if we draft WR well this year, we let lafell move on. don't need to be over-spending for a pretty average receiver.

we gain more by extending hardy.

that said...i don't see us keeping hardy either. he'll be commanding more money...not CJ money, but still more than we should be spending on one position. look at paul kruger's contract as a baseline.


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#46 top dawg

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:13 AM

This is my take on Hardy (Gettelman and CJ's contract) from another thread:


Agreed.

Defense and consistent pressure on opposing QBs is something that helped the Giants win Super Bowls (as well as the Steelers). Call me crazy, but I think Gett has that same mind frame. I absolutely think that Hardy is a key element in a run to a championship, and Alexander has not yet shown us that his level of game is in the same league as the Kraken's. Consistent pressure, imo, is perhaps the most important way to deal with guys like Brees. It doesn't stop him completely, but it makes Breesus human. Pressure definitely turns Matty Ice into slush, and flat out makes Freeman look more like Vince Young than Vince Ferragamo (old schoolers). Moreover, his mere presence helps the entire defense including his teammate on the opposite side. Another good year by Hardy will undoubtedly put another type of pressure on CJ and the FO. One would have to think long and hard about who stays or goes (if it would come to that), and one would be faced with the real possibility of restructuring or getting capped (as the process of market correction will more than likely continue into next year's free agency, particularly with Gett at the helm). But, I still say we keep both at the end of the day.




Going off on a little tangent that may be a sign of things to come next year, look what Elway is saying about Dumervil's contract this year. So all of you who don't think that CJ's contract won't become an issue, or that he would never be cut or traded in favor of a cheaper Hardy or up-and-coming Alexander (if he shows marked improvement), you might want to think again. Gett comes from a different ilk than Hurney...


Basically, Gett is going to pay players what their worth, and he is not going to overspend (as well he shouldn't). I think that a lot is going to depend upon Hardy's play this year. If he has another good year, I don't believe there is any way Gettleman is going to let him go, unless he wants an exorbitant contract. I don't think Hardy is going to get CJ-money, and I don't even think CJ is going to get Hurney-CJ-money, but good money more in line with what some of the coveted premier rushers got this year. Cj will have to trim some fat off his contract if Hardy (and, to a lesser extent, Alexander) plays with the fire he played with this past season. Moreover, another part of the equation will be the possible emergence (or rerun in Dwan Edwards' case) of a DT who can actually put pressure on the interior. Gettleman is going to want to keep that intact, but at market value. Hopefully the players will covet what we are trying to do here and compromise to be able to stay Panthers.

Now, LaFell is another story altogether. I am just miffed as to why people continue to speak as if he is all that and a bag of chips. He isn't steak, people, he is more akin to Spam. He barely plays to the level of a B-list WR in this league, and he is going to have to up his game markedly for him to even be a major concern when his contract comes up. I think he will be a concern---someone who knows our system, that would be nice to have, but up to now his play doesn't warrant a big money deal because he hasn't played near what people first believed to be his potential. I could argue that he has been a little disappointing, actually.

LaFell is going to have to improve dramatically, or the market might just barely see him as a blip on the radar (much like it sees Murphy, (saw) Brandon Gibson, and possibly even DHB today.

#47 CRA

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:00 AM

Hardy isnt going anywhere, bank on it.

NY model is to keep drafting DEs....building through the draft doesn't mean paying your draft picks big deals once they mature/peak.

#48 Catalyst

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:05 AM

LaFell still has a lot to prove before we start talking contract extension...