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Ted Ginn joins the Panthers on a one-year deal


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#256 top dawg

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

Santana Moss 41 receptions, 573 yards and 8TDs > LaFell's 44, 677, and 4 (and he's not even a starter).
Pierre Garcon who had a bad foot had numbers similar to LaFell, 44, 633 and 4.
The Leonard Hankerson, WR extraordinaire (sarcasm), even put up 38, 543 and 3 on 19 less targets.

Blame it on the read option all you want. That's really the only argument that you can cling onto at this point,. LaFell really had the the same or less impact of an old guy who was not a starter, and a guy on a bad foot can equal the production of your prized WR2. He was a little better than another guy who was not a starter, but who arguably was supposed to have his break out year also, but turned out to be a mediocre WR just like LaFell. Like I said, the stats really just prove what I've been saying all along. Moreover, if I had film of LaFell, I would have to bring my pillow because I'd probably fall asleep. It would be named The Disappearing Man.

Regarding Olsen and Tolbert, I already answered it, but let me make it simple: Good players rise to the occasion, so LaFell is not going to get a pass because he doesn't warrant more attention because of his inability to get open and make a great impact upon the game. Oh, he is a mediocre WR whose job is to catch the ball, but because he doesn't do his job as effectively as more than a few others, he loses touches to the TE and the FB. OK.

Smith's numbers were still decent, notwithstanding the fact that LaFell couldn't break out and command the attention of defenses.

#257 Happy Panther

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:16 PM

I'm confused by all the love for Ginn and I admittedly know nothing about him.

But he was not used as a WR at all last year and lost his KR job (but kept his PR job). He will not have any chance to have the PR success he had last year until we have a better ST supporting cast.

Doesn't seem like much of a story except that he is probably a decent value. What am I missing?

#258 h0llywood

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

This is quite the opposite of the sentiment here. Hopefully it stays this way about him.



#259 h0llywood

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

I'm confused by all the love for Ginn and I admittedly know nothing about him.

But he was not used as a WR at all last year and lost his KR job (but kept his PR job). He will not have any chance to have the PR success he had last year until we have a better ST supporting cast.

Doesn't seem like much of a story except that he is probably a decent value. What am I missing?


Ted Ginn was drafted as the #4 receiver at the time in 2007. He was known to have good hands so the case of dropsies only started to happen towards the end of his time in Miami. I think he has all the physical tools as an athlete to succeed in the NFL. He has the ability to play both sides of the ball as he has played QB, WR, RB and CB in his lifetime.

His biggest issues has to be in his head. He needs to gain confidence because if he can consistently catch the ball, he can be a very very dangerous man.

Here was his scouting analysis back in 2007:

Positives: Has outstanding quickness, agility and balance … Gets to top speed in a hurry and maintains acceleration throughout his routes … Has that quick second gear burst as a returner to take the ball to the house consistently (six touchdowns on punt returns, two touchdowns on kickoffs) … Good team leader who responds to discipline and with his work ethic, you won't need to monitor him … Once he gets into his patterns, he is quick to gobble up the cushion … If given a free lane to operate, Ginn is certain to find the seams … On deep patterns, he has that extra burst needed to run by defenders and is very effective at making the over-the-shoulder grabs … The thing you see on film is his ability to get down the field rapidly … Can track, adjust and jump for the ball much better on long routes than he does when working in a crowd … Given a free lane, Ginn will immediately burst into his routes … Eats up the cushion in an instant and while his lateral agility could improve, he maintains stride on slants and screens … Best served on screens, quick flares, slants or bursting up the seam -- anything that will take advantage of his explosive quickness … Is very quick through transition and has a knack for avoiding second level defenders to find holes in the zone … Lacks double cut agility, but can accelerate suddenly when he drops his pads … Can instantly turn on a defensive back on a route, as he has that extra gear needed to pull away … When he sinks his hips, he transitions fast and accelerates through the cuts to burst away … Might not look fluid in and out of his breaks, but has the ability to separate thanks to a sensational second gear … Has the speed to stretch the field and separate, showing steady acceleration to uncover vs. man coverage … Has a knack for becoming available quickly on the blitz and does a good job of getting his feet down along the sidelines … Carries route depth, sliding to create lanes, but must do a better job of settling when working in traffic … Adjusts readily to man coverage and is alert to finding the soft spot in the deep zone … If given room to operate, he will simply race past a defender … Might not have the strength to break tackles or the lateral agility to redirect, but with his acceleration, he is a dangerous threat with the ball in his hands … His burst makes him too elusive in man coverage, as he always makes the first tackler miss.
Negatives: Has a wiry build with a lean frame, split high with long legs, lacking the bulk or strength to consistently beat press coverage … Plays with suddenness, but lacks the lateral agility to come out of his breaks cleanly and needs to improve his footwork, especially in stop-and-go action … Instinctive returner, but needs to vary his speed when running routes … While he is explosive in the open field, his concentration tends to be a bit inconsistent, as he hears the sounds of the defender's footsteps working over the middle … Must do a better job of securing the ball on receptions before turning up field (will drop a few when he tries to run before grasping the ball … Lacks the strength to power his way through the press and needs to be more active with his hands on release … Must be more alert working underneath for when the quarterback is going to deliver the ball, but does a nice job of looking the throw in over his outside shoulder without having to break stride … Moves well left or right, but shows only adequate hip snap on his lateral moves … When he is up against the press, he tends to take false steps and cocks his arms before firing, but he has enough speed to compensate … Sometimes that speed gets him into trouble, as he runs so fast he might miss a cut or look sloppy trying to plant-and-drive … His cuts look too choppy and he looks tight in his hips making body turns … Looks a little too stiff in his hips when moving laterally, so he is not a great multiple cut runner … Shows very good vision to track the ball in flight, but will struggle some in tough-to-catch spots … Not much of a red-zone threat, as he had only six passes thrown to him in that area through 37 games.

Compares To: DANTE HALL-Kansas City … Like Hall, Ginn appears to be a quality return specialist who can contribute some as a receiver rather than a receiver who can contribute some as a return specialist. He is very effective on quick slants and screens and tracks the ball well over his head, but with his lack of strength and inability to defeat the press, he will struggle to get a clean release and into his routes at the next level. He seems hesitant to go over the middle as a receiver and the sound of the defender's footsteps tends to see him lose concentration. Still, he is an electrifying returner who could bring decent value in multiple receiver formations, as long as you don't ask Ginn to run lateral routes into a crowd.



#260 Happy Panther

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

Ted Ginn was drafted as the #4 receiver at the time in 2007. He was known to have good hands so the case of dropsies only started to happen towards the end of his time in Miami. I think he has all the physical tools as an athlete to succeed in the NFL. He has the ability to play both sides of the ball as he has played QB, WR, RB and CB in his lifetime.

His biggest issues has to be in his head. He needs to gain confidence because if he can consistently catch the ball, he can be a very very dangerous man.

Here was his scouting analysis back in 2007:


So huge potential needs to be developed a bit more mentally?

I'm just reading his history and he was a bust at Miami and traded for a 5th. Then largely a bust in SF.

Seems like a failed project we are taking one more stab at. Hopefully I am wrong.

#261 koolkatluke

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

Santana Moss 41 receptions, 573 yards and 8TDs > LaFell's 44, 677, and 4 (and he's not even a starter).
Pierre Garcon who had a bad foot had numbers similar to LaFell, 44, 633 and 4.
The Leonard Hankerson, WR extraordinaire (sarcasm), even put up 38, 543 and 3 on 19 less targets.

Blame it on the read option all you want. That's really the only argument that you can cling onto at this point,. LaFell really had the the same or less impact of an old guy who was not a starter, and a guy on a bad foot can equal the production of your prized WR2. He was a little better than another guy who was not a starter, but who arguably was supposed to have his break out year also, but turned out to be a mediocre WR just like LaFell. Like I said, the stats really just prove what I've been saying all along. Moreover, if I had film of LaFell, I would have to bring my pillow because I'd probably fall asleep. It would be named The Disappearing Man.

Regarding Olsen and Tolbert, I already answered it, but let me make it simple: Good players rise to the occasion, so LaFell is not going to get a pass because he doesn't warrant more attention because of his inability to get open and make a great impact upon the game. Oh, he is a mediocre WR whose job is to catch the ball, but because he doesn't do his job as effectively as more than a few others, he loses touches to the TE and the FB. OK.

Smith's numbers were still decent, notwithstanding the fact that LaFell couldn't break out and command the attention of defenses.


Again those are not great numbers. That is still the same area as Lafell and Smith were. So you just made my point. The offense didn't give many opportunities for Smith or Lafell to put up numbers.

Smith numbers were well below his avg. He didn't score his 1st TD until half way thru the season. You're full of it lying to yourself like that to downgrade lafell.

Dude I understand you don't like the guy but don't deny the facts.

#262 h0llywood

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:45 PM

So huge potential needs to be developed a bit more mentally?

I'm just reading his history and he was a bust at Miami and traded for a 5th. Then largely a bust in SF.

Seems like a failed project we are taking one more stab at. Hopefully I am wrong.


I can't really defend him from being called a bust but i have hope he can be salvaged. Even if he never becomes a WR and remains a threat on ST, it's already a huge upgrade to what we currently have on ST.

His Rookie season, in fairness to Ginn, the QB he received the most passes from was Leo Clemon. To be honest, I cannot actually say I know who the hell he is. The leading receiver on the team in 2007 was Marty Booker with 556 yards.

Chad Pennington came around in 2008 and threw for 3,600 yards that year. Ginn actually led the team that season with 790 yards.

His first year in SF, he was brought in primarily for ST and he played behind Crabtree, Morgan and Davis. Having a bad Alex Smith and Troy Smith throw the ball didn't help either.

Maybe having #89 mentoring him and Cam throwing to him will make him a legit #3 WR. I dunno. But as I said, ST value is great.

#263 Happy Panther

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:04 PM

I can't really defend him from being called a bust but i have hope he can be salvaged. Even if he never becomes a WR and remains a threat on ST, it's already a huge upgrade to what we currently have on ST.

His Rookie season, in fairness to Ginn, the QB he received the most passes from was Leo Clemon. To be honest, I cannot actually say I know who the hell he is. The leading receiver on the team in 2007 was Marty Booker with 556 yards.

Chad Pennington came around in 2008 and threw for 3,600 yards that year. Ginn actually led the team that season with 790 yards.

His first year in SF, he was brought in primarily for ST and he played behind Crabtree, Morgan and Davis. Having a bad Alex Smith and Troy Smith throw the ball didn't help either.

Maybe having #89 mentoring him and Cam throwing to him will make him a legit #3 WR. I dunno. But as I said, ST value is great.


cool

#264 carolina-chuck

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:35 PM

Right now Pilares is the #3. Ginn most likely is #4


I'm gonna shoot my brain out. Pilares may not even make the 53 man squad at the end of the day.

#265 iamhubby1

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

For our needs, Lafell fits nicely. Can he be upgraded? Sure he can. But it ain't as easy as some would have you believe.

#266 Whitaker 24

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:26 PM

Guys why only a one year deal? Why not 2 if possible he is only 27 and proven.

#267 rayzor

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:40 PM

Guys why only a one year deal? Why not 2 if possible he is only 27 and proven.

hardly anyone is getting more than one year this year. no reason to give out more. also no money, but that's another story.

most FAs the next couple years are only going to be getting cheap one year deals. if they work out, give them another one. if they don't, you aren't stuck with a contract/player you don't want. surplus of players on the market and an unexpected flat cap and very little money to go around makes it the buyers market it is.

#268 Guest_FredLane4Ever_*

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

PJ HAIRSTON IS THE MAN

#269 Guest_FredLane4Ever_*

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Once again PJ HAIRSTON IS THE MAN

#270 top dawg

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:24 PM

Again those are not great numbers. That is still the same area as Lafell and Smith were. So you just made my point. The offense didn't give many opportunities for Smith or Lafell to put up numbers.

Smith numbers were well below his avg. He didn't score his 1st TD until half way thru the season. You're full of it lying to yourself like that to downgrade lafell.

Dude I understand you don't like the guy but don't deny the facts.


Whatever. LaFell's numbers prove my point, as does our need for another legitimate WR---the same need that we have had ever since Muhammad went to the Windy City. I am not the one who makes the dude more than he is every offseason like clockwork. I don't dislike Lafell I just see the reality for what it is: we need, and have needed, a whole lot more at WR (particularly our merry band of 2s over the last 5 years, and we are hopefully going to get it.

And, furthermore, Smitty's numbers were actually above/near his career average when you take the last eight years into account (which obviously make for better stats overall than just looking at his entire career).


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