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Further evidence that WR trumps O-Line as a need (PFF edition).


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#1 panther4life

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

or am I interpreting the stats wrong?

https://www.profootb...-time-to-throw/

Look at the charts and you'll see that Cam holds onto the ball longer than anyone before deciding to take off and scramble, throw a pass or get sacked thru November 8th.

You will also see that the best pocket passers in the game like Brady have the quickest release and most success with it. This is because he is able to find weapons that are open faster than Cam can.

I will be glad to post the end of season charts in screenshot form for all to see if someone can tell me how, since this data was derived in early November.(If it requires me signing up for photobucket or some other poo I am sorry thats too labor intensive).

For now I will tell you the top 5 and bottom 5 in time to throw at season end.
Time to throw definition from PFF is

"we record the time from when the ball is snapped to the point where the quarterback has either thrown a pass or can no longer throw a pass (has been sacked or has scrambled past the line of scrimmage)."

****Only 29 QB's showed up in this stat as I used a 50% of snaps played filter.
(most time)
1.Russell Wilson 3.35 seconds
2. RG3 3.07 seconds
2.Vick 3.07 seconds
4.Cam 3.06 seconds
5.Rodgers 2.88 seconds
(least time)
1.Brady 2.47 seconds
2.Peyton 2.50 seconds
3.Flacco 2.60 seconds
4.Fitzpatrick 2.61 seconds
4.Palmer 2.61 seconds

Time to pass attempt as defined by pff as "the average time from the snap of the ball to the pass attempt."
(takes the most time)
1. Russell Wilson 2.97 seconds
2. Cam 2.68 seconds
3. Vick 2.73 seconds
4.Big Ben 2.73 seconds
4.Weeden 2.73 seconds
**Rodgers dropped to 11th here after being 5th in actual time to throw or more accurately time allowed to throw.
(takes the least time)
1.Fitzpatrick 2.40 seconds
2. Dalton 2.40 seconds
3. Brady 2.42 seconds
4. Peyton 2.46 seconds
5. Flacco 2.60 seconds

Cam had the 8th most time until he took a sack at 3.58 seconds. For comparison Big Ben had the least with 2.43 seconds. ---Hmmm bet some of you o-line advocates did not know this. Sure you can say its Cam's ability to avoid the rush but either way it belittles the need for o-linemen.

Cam was 3rd in time that he held onto the ball before taking off past the line of scrimmage at 5.7 seconds.---- This tells me he was truly wanted to find a receiver downfield before scrambling and often times couldn't. Again the skeptics rebuttal could be in an attempt to avoid the rush he lost his vision of the field but I tend to think it was more of receivers not getting open.It was certainly a combo of both just depends on the individual opinion on what happened more.

From a percentage standpoint Cam had the smallest percentage of his dropbacks "in the pocket" last less than 2.5 seconds. Defined by pff as "percentage of dropbacks when qb has less than 2.5 seconds in the pocket from the snap of the ball".

The exact percentage was 37.1 % with less than 2.5 seconds in pocket vs 62.9% of his drop backs where he had 2.6 seconds or more in the pocket-----This means he had more time on a consistent basis to sit in the pocket than any other QB in the league. This is the gift and the curse of the read option imo. It made D's freeze for an extra moment but it also put a lot on Cam's shoulders to decide the best move to make next, hand it off, hold it and hope someone gets open, or take off. That's a lot to digest in a very short amount of time, especially under the conditions of Football.

According to PFF only of 2 these 28 qb's were not sacked once in less than 2.5 seconds. Cam and Eli---pretty neat huh? Bad news is that means every time he was sacked he had at least 2.6 seconds and that means nobody was getting open, he could not find the open man while in the pocket. Again this leads me to we need a new weapon to open up our passing game!

Another Neat signature stat they offer with a cool spreadsheet is called under pressure.

Cam was ultimately under pressure on 36.6% of his drop backs. 8th most in the league.
--Lets look at the context here ladies and gents. We already know he had more time to throw while in the pocket than any other QB but yet he faced pressure the 8th most times. Hmmm why is he not getting rid of the ball. Either he can't find an open man or there is no open man. I tend to believe the latter more often than the former. Keep in mind Cam got real stingy with being a gun slinger and cut back on his int's this way. So he's not going to force it too often unless he trust the receiver.

TL;DR Version..I just posted a poo ton of unique premium stats and the way I interpreted them confirms my belief that a playmaking WR is our biggest need now and in the future. Take the time to hear my argument and read the stats if you disagree.If you disagree without reading at least the bolded parts then don't bother bumping the thread.

#2 BigSyke

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

LOL. good write up. LOL

#3 rayzor

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

that right side of the line needs help bad and soon. picking up rookies and starting them right away won't help much. best and most likely solution is to pick up cheap vets, at least to play RG who don't suck while we give cam a weapon or two who can get open, make big plays, and score. that's a quicker and cheaper fix in the draft than OL.

#4 Gabeking

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

Those stats could be an indication of his receivers not getting open plus him simply holding onto the ball a bit too long and not making quick decisions as well (the latter issue was more in the first half of the season than the second). Although I do think we're going to pick a receiver early in this draft, don't sit here and tell me our line play (especially on the right side) isn't an issue either. Also, don't doubt that cam's ability to extend plays doesn't contribute to that amount of time he has in the pocket as well..

#5 Cracka McNasty

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

I cam here expecting to roll my eyes yet you make a valid argument. It could also be argued that cam needs to work on making quicker decisions and not all fault is on our receivers themselves.

either way, interesting.

#6 0115

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:30 PM

Splendid article.

#7 MHS831

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:31 PM

Linemen improve the running game, which improves the passing game.
Linemen protect the franchise qb.
Linemen alllow for WRs to run complex routes.

We run a vertical offense, which requires more time for routes

#8 BigSyke

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

Please. I still think o-line needs an upgrade...but no way are those WR helping him.....I saw multiple deep balls dropped.

Cam could work on being more accurate with short passes.

#9 panther4life

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

Those stats could be an indication of his receivers not getting open plus him simply holding onto the ball a bit too long and not making quick decisions as well (the latter issue was more in the first half of the season than the second). Although I do think we're going to pick a receiver early in this draft, don't sit here and tell me our line play (especially on the right side) isn't an issue either. Also, don't doubt that cam's ability to extend plays doesn't contribute to that amount of time he has in the pocket as well..


I mentioned every thing you said already in the op. I agree that Cam can extend the play so having a stellar o-line for someone like him is less than important than it would be to a someone like Peyton.

Our weakest position on the line is our Guard play. So do you think Warmack or a top WR prospect will help the offense as a whole more?

#10 Saxist Fed

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    halt the tomfoolery

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

LOL. good write up. LOL


What's with all of the LOLs in your posts?

Good write-up btw.

#11 panther4life

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

I cam here expecting to roll my eyes yet you make a valid argument. It could also be argued that cam needs to work on making quicker decisions and not all fault is on our receivers themselves.

either way, interesting.


Thanks for actually reading the post.(seriously no sarcasm here)

#12 panther4life

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

Linemen improve the running game, which improves the passing game.
Linemen protect the franchise qb.
Linemen alllow for WRs to run complex routes.

We run a vertical offense, which requires more time for routes

Oh yes of course, the problem is we are not allowing Armanti more time to run complex routes, got it!

#13 BigSyke

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:36 PM

But Pff had Brady's o-line as one of the best......

#14 rayzor

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

Oh yes of course, the problem is we are not allowing Armanti more time to run complex routes, got it!

bwahaha

#15 rayzor

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 03:40 PM

I cam here expecting to roll my eyes yet you make a valid argument. It could also be argued that cam needs to work on making quicker decisions and not all fault is on our receivers themselves.

either way, interesting.

oline needs improved. cam needs to make quicker decisions. WR corps needs an influx of talent.

all these things are correct.


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