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My case to why we should not take an OT at 14


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#76 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:43 PM

14 is too high for a mauler in Warmack? Whoa, you're insane. We'd be lucky if Warmack is still there at 14.

Cooper, it depends how high you have him on your board. I have seen someone on NFL network last week who had him going before Warmack to Tennessee, bc he's more athletic than Warmack and can play all three interior OLINE positions.


Wait, just a couple of pages ago you were saying this wasn't a smash mouth league anymore an mauling OLs weren't necessary in the new pass heavy NFL. Which is it?

Personally, I don't want any OL other than a LT in the top half of the 1st round.

Every year the analysts overrate where the first interior OL will go. If there's elite interior OL prospects, the first usually goes in the early to mid-20s. If not, it's often early in the 2cd. Hell, tons of analysts were mocking DeCastro in the top 10 last year. They just here NFL types raving about the guys and end up overrating them. Yes, the NFL guys rave about them, but they're still interior OL players and those aren't premium positions. You only draft premium positions in the top half of the 1st round.

#77 Kevin Greene

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

Conclusion: At the end of the day, we're better off grooming later round guys of our owns, and going the FA route for veterans O-linemen. Knowing Accorsi and Reese, Gettleman should stay true to his NY Philosophy.

OK now do the same thing for the WR position.
Also, you do realize most Super Bowl teams (Like the Ravens and Steelers) draft late due to a very good record the year before, all the prized OT's being gone by then. If one of the top 3 is there at 14 you take them. And count yourself damned lucky.

#78 C47

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:47 PM

OK now do the same thing for the WR position.
Also, you do realize most Super Bowl teams (Like the Ravens and Steelers) draft late due to a very good record the year before, all the prized OT's being gone by then. If one of the top 3 is there you take them. And count yourself damned lucky.

Ask and you shall receive....

2003
Detroit: 5-11 Joey Harrington
Houston: 5-11 David Carr/Tony Banks
Arizona: 4-12: Jeff Blake/Josh McCown

2004
Arizona: 6-10 Josh McCown
Detroit: 6-10 Joey Harrington
Jacksonville: 9-7 Byron Leftwich
Buffalo: 9-7 Drew Bledsoe

Tampa: 5-11 Brian Greise/Brad Johnson
Atlanta: 11-5 Michael Vick/Matt Schaubb
SF: 2-14 Tim Rattay/Ken Dorsey

2005
Cleveland: 6-10 Trent Dilfer/Charlie Frye
Minnesota: 9-7 Brad Johnson/Daunte Culpepper
Detroit: 5-11 Joey Harrington/Jeff Garcia
Jacksonville: 12-4 Byron Leftwich/David Garrad
Baltimore: 6-10 Kyle Boller/Anthony Wright
Atlanta: 8-8 Michael Vick

2006
Pittsburgh: 8-8 Big Ben

2007
Detroit: 7-9 Jon Kitna
Miami: 1-15 Cleo Lemmon/Trent Green/John Beck
KC: 4-12 Damon Huard/Brodie Croyle
New Orleans: 7-9 Brees
San Diego: 11-5 Rivers
Indy: 13-3 Manning


2008
None taken in first

2009
Oakland: 5-11 Russell/Bruce Gradkowski/Charlie Frye
SF: 8-8 Alex Smith/Shaun Hill
PHI: 11-5 McRibb/Kevin Kolb
MN: 12-4 Favre
NYG: 8-8 Manning
TN: 8-8 Vince Young/Kerry Collins


2010
Denver: 4-12 Kyle Orton/The Golden Calf of Bristol
Dallas: 6-10 Jon Kitna/Tony Romo

2011
Cinci: 9-7 Dalton
Atlanta: 10-6 Ryan

KC: 7-9 Matt Cassel/Tyler Palko/Kyle Orton

2012
Jacksonville: 2-14 Chad Henne/Blaine Gabbart
Arizona: 5-11 John Skelton/Kevin Kolb/Ryan Lindley
TN: 6-10 Jake Locker/Matt Hasselbeck
SF: 11-4 Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick


Again, we're looking at this in a bit of a vacuum, ignoring factors like who was the QB, if the drafted player played significant snaps (see 2012 SF) etc.....

EDIT: Added the Quarterbacks because I feel it gives a better representation.....

These are Receiving Statistics Only....

REC/YDS/TD

2003
Charles Rogers: 22/243/3
Andre Johnson: 66/976/4
Bryant Johnson: 35/438/1

2004
Fitz: 58/780/8
Roy Williams: 54/817/8
Reggie Williams: 27/268/1
Lee Evans: 48/843/9
Michael Clayton: 80/1193/7
Michael Jenkins: 7/119/0
Rashaun Woods: 7/160/1

2005
Braylon Edwards: 32/512/3
Troy Williamson: 24/372/2
Mike Williams: 29/350/1
Matt Jones: 36/432/5
Mark Clayton: 44/471/2
Roddy White: 29/446/3

2006
Santonio Holmes: 49/824/2

2007
Megatron: 48/756/4
Ginn Jr: 34/420/2
Bowe: 70/995/5
Robert Meachem: 0/0/0
Craig Davis: 20/188/1
Anthony Gonzalez: 37/576/3

2008
No first round WRS

2009
Heyward-Bay: 9/124/1
Crabtree: 48/625/2
Maclin: 55/762/4
Harvin: 60/790/6
Nicks: 47/790/6
Britt: 42/701/3

2010
Demaryius Thomas: 22/283/2
Dez Bryant: 45/561/6

2011
AJ Green: 65/1057/7
Julio: 54/955/8
Jon Baldwin: 21/254/1

2012
Blackmon: 64/865/5
Michael Floyd: 45/562/2
Kendall Wright: 64/626/4
AJ Jenkins: 0/0/0

FWIW, only Andre, Fitz, Michael Clayton, AJ Green, Justin Blackmon and Kendall Wright led their respective teams in receptions the year they were drafted....


There ya go....

#79 Kevin Greene

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:50 PM

Fitz lead the team in receiving with 780 yards? Posted Image

#80 C47

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

Fitz lead the team in receiving with 780 yards? Posted Image


Josh McCown was awesome apparently....

#81 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:57 PM

The only way a rookie would lead the Panthers in receiving is if Smitty got hurt.

If we drafted Patterson, I would expect Demaryius Thomas type receiving numbers. I'd just hope we could get him involved elsewhere with returns, reverses etc. to maximize his impact as a rookie. He's going to have a steep NFL learning curve. There's big bust potential with him IMO.

#82 koolkatluke

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:04 AM

The only way a rookie would lead the Panthers in receiving is if Smitty got hurt.

If we drafted Patterson, I would expect Demaryius Thomas type receiving numbers. I'd just hope we could get him involved elsewhere with returns, reverses etc. to maximize his impact as a rookie. He's going to have a steep NFL learning curve. There's big bust potential with him IMO.


Now that we have Ginn to do the return thing. It lessen the impact he would have there.

#83 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:07 AM

Now that we have Ginn to do the return thing. It lessen the impact he would have there.


If Patterson ended up being a more effective return man, Ginn might not even make the final roster in that hypothetical situation.

#84 koolkatluke

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:24 AM

If Patterson ended up being a more effective return man, Ginn might not even make the final roster in that hypothetical situation.


Then you have to ask yourself why would you draft him if you have one of the best return specialist in the league. Cutting off some of his impact. And you have to wait for his impact as a wr.

If you draft him and he loses out to Ginn for the KR/PR job. You have a top 14 pick on the field only for 3 wr sets. How much impact is that?

#85 Swaggasaurus

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:28 AM

Then you have to ask yourself why would you draft him if you have one of the best return specialist in the league. Cutting off some of his impact. And you have to wait for his impact as a wr.

If you draft him and he loses out to Ginn for the KR/PR job. You have a top 14 pick on the field only for 3 wr sets. How much impact is that?

Why not 2 WR sets?

#86 koolkatluke

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:49 AM

Why not 2 WR sets?



http://espn.go.com/v...clip?id=9069721

No matter how much some of you hate it. Patterson will not come in and be able to take the #2 wr spot from lafell.

He's doesn't know the offense.

He still has to work on route running and learning all the routes in the tree.

He isn't the blocker Lafell is for the run game and we will still run the ball a lot.

#87 Brokenbad

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

OFFENSIVE TACKLES DON'T WIN YOU GAMES!

Defense and PLAYMAKERS do!!!


Offensive tackles who were taken in the 1st round in the past 7 years (I'm only going that far).

2012: Matt Kalil no.4 (Minnesota's record: 10-6, Wildcard), Riley Reiff no.23 (Detriot's record: 4-12)

2011: Tyron Smith no.9 (Dallas' record: 8-8), Nate Solder no.17 (New England's record: 13-3, SB appearance), Anthony Castonzo no.22 (Indy's record: 2-14), James Carpenter no.25 (Seattle's record: 7-9), Gabe Carimi no.29 (Chicago's record: 8-8), Derek Sherrod no.32 (GB's record: 15-1, Divsional)

2010: Trent Williams no.4 (Wash's recrod: 6-10), Russell Okung no.6 (Seattle's record: 7-9, Divisional), Anthony Davis no.11 (SF's record: 6-10), Bryan Bulaga no.23 (GB's record: 10-6, SB Champion)

2009: Jason Smith no.2 (StL's record: 1-15), Andre Smith no.6 (Cincy's record: 10-6, Wildcard), Eugene Monroe no.8 (Jags' record: 7-9), Michael Oher no. 23 (Balt's record: 9-7, Dvisional)

2008: Jake Long no.1 (Mia's record: 11-5, Wildcard), Ryan Clady no.12 (Denver's record: 8-8), Branden Albert no.15 (KC's record: 2-14), Gosder Cherilus no.17 (Detriot's record: 0-16), Jeff Otah no.19 (Caolina's record: 12-4, Divsional), Sam Baker no.21 (Atl's record: 11-5, Wildcard), Duane Brown no.26 (Houston's record: 8-8)

2007: Joe Thomas no.1 (Browns' record: 10-6), Levi Brown no.5 (Cardinals' record: 8-8), Joe Staley no. 28 (SF's record: 5-11)

2006: D'Brickashaw Ferguson no.4 (Jets' record: 10-6, Wildcard)

2005: Jammal Brown no.13 (Wash's record: 10-6, Divisional), Alex Barron no.19 (St.L's record: 6-10)

Notes: In the past 7 NFL Drafts, 29 Offensive Tackles were taken in the 1st round. Twelve of the 29 OTs had winning records in their rookie year. Twelve of the 29 OTs made the Playoffs in their first season. (Joe Thomas 10-6 didnt make the Playoffs / Russell Okung 7-9 made the Playoffs)

Previous 7 years Super Bowl Champions:

2013: Baltimore Ravens
LT: Bryant McKinnie (1st Rounder) FA addition
LG: Kelechi Osemele (2nd Rounder)
C: Matt Birk (6th Rounder) FA addition
RG: Marshal Yanda (3rd Rounder)
RT: Michael Oher (1st Rounder) *****

2012: New York Giants
LT: David Diehl (5th Rounder)
LG: Kevin Boothe (6th Rounder) FA addition
C: David Baas (2nd Rounder) FA addition
RG: Chris Snee Chris Snee (2nd Rounder)
RT: Kareem McKenzie (3rd Rounder) FA addition

2011: Green Bay Packers
LT: Chad Clifton (2nd Rounder)
LG: Daryn Colledge (2nd Rounder)
C: Scott Wells (7th Rounder)
RG: Josh Sitton 4th Rounder)
RT: Bryan Bulaga (1st Rounder) *****

2010: New Orleans Saints
LT: Jermon Bushrod (4th Rounder)
LG: Carl Nicks (5th Rounder)
C: Jonathan Goodwin (5th Rounder) FA addition
RG: Jahri Evans (4th Rounder)
RT: Jon Stinchcomb (2nd Rounder)

2009: Pittsburgh Steelers
LT: Max Starks (3rd Rounder)
LG: Chris Kemoeatu (6th Rounder)
C: Justin Hartwig (6th Rounder) FA addition
RG: Darnell Stapleton (undrafted)
RT: Willie Colon (4th Rounder)

2008: New York Giants
LT: David Diehl (5th Rounder)
LG: Rich Seubert (undrafted)
C: Shaun O'Hara (undrafted) FA addition
RG: Chris Snee (2nd Rounder)
RT: Kareem McKenzie (3rd Rounder) FA addition

2007: Indianapolis Colts
LT: Tarik Glenn (1st Rounder) *****
LG: Ryan Lilja (undrafted)
C: Jeff Saturday (undrafted)
RG: Jake Scott (5th Rounder)
RT: Ryan Diem (4th Rounder)

Notes:
Out of the previous 7 years Super Bowl Champions, "only" three "OTs" were taken by their team as 1st rounders (Glenn, Bulaga, and Oher). Two (Bulaga and Oher) of the three are "RTs". Only Glenn was a LT.


Conclusion: At the end of the day, we're better off grooming later round guys of our owns, and going the FA route for veterans O-linemen. Knowing Accorsi and Reese, Gettleman should stay true to his NY Philosophy.


Says the same clown that wants Tavon Austin at 14....

#88 carolina-chuck

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:00 AM

Wait, just a couple of pages ago you were saying this wasn't a smash mouth league anymore an mauling OLs weren't necessary in the new pass heavy NFL. Which is it?

Personally, I don't want any OL other than a LT in the top half of the 1st round.

Every year the analysts overrate where the first interior OL will go. If there's elite interior OL prospects, the first usually goes in the early to mid-20s. If not, it's often early in the 2cd. Hell, tons of analysts were mocking DeCastro in the top 10 last year. They just here NFL types raving about the guys and end up overrating them. Yes, the NFL guys rave about them, but they're still interior OL players and those aren't premium positions. You only draft premium positions in the top half of the 1st round.


Personally, I don't want any OL other than a RG in the top half of the 1st round

#89 carolina-chuck

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

If Patterson ended up being a more effective return man, Ginn might not even make the final roster in that hypothetical situation.


More like Pilares, AE and Gettis may not make the final roster

#90 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:29 PM

Personally, I don't want any OL other than a RG in the top half of the 1st round


There won't be an OG that goes in the top half of the 1st round. There almost never is. It's just not a premium position.


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