Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Kawann Short

55 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Then Floyd with all of his hustle will only manage 1-3 sacks and maybe 8 tackles for loss.

The UT's job is to get pressure and penetrate the gaps. No one does that better than Short.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='Dash Global' timestamp='1365317719' post='2188148']
Then Floyd with all of his hustle will only manage 1-3 sacks and maybe 8 tackles for loss.

The UT's job is to get pressure and penetrate the gaps. No one does that better than Short.
[/quote]its the DLs job to get CONSISTENT pressure...there are better. that's the earned and deserved knock against him. he's inconsistent. that's why there are more than likely going to be several DTs taken ahead of him and why he'll probably fall into the second or even third round....and teams won't think twice about passing him by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

So ur saying Floyd gets more consistent pressure on the qb?

Pick a game for each and ill go and track all the qb hurries, sacks, TFL, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='rayzor' timestamp='1365217116' post='2187449']
i've seen several.

looked at one just now that i kind of randomly selected not knowing any stats or anything and what i saw was 3 pretty big plays (would have been 4 where he made what would have been a tackle for loss, except he tackled the wrong guy...still impressive, tho). but for the most part it was pretty blah.

here's the one i watched...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyEX6JgfSaM[/media]

i don't think it would take long to find more that showed the same thing.

to a small degree he reminds me of peppers who had a couple huge plays every game, but for most of the time he just wasn't all that spectacular. what i saw in short was a guy who could take advantage of holes that showed up (which happens in every game) and being able to completely capitalize on them (which should happen), but he doesn't seem like the guy that is constantly disrupting the pocket or stressing the QB. just occassionally. when he does, it's impressive. it just doesn't happen often enough.
[/quote]

Personally i find Short very impressive on this video.
And after your link you are completely wrong.

Imho this kid is smart.
With Hardy, CJ, Dwan and Short our front 4 would be scary again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I only watched like 1 minutes of that vid and was very impressed. I think ppl hear something and roll with it. Very first play he gets double teamed and still comes back and makes the tackle on the rb going the opposite direction. lol 2nd play he beats the OG to the outside and rides him all the way back into the QB. Third play he gets double teamed and sheds both linemen and makes the tackle in the backfield. 5th play pushes the OG all the way back into the QB. Just complete domination on the line you can see in the first 2 series on defense.

All this talk about Short and his effort or him going MIA is way overblown.

Dude is causing havoc on the OL every vid ive seen of him.

I pray we land him somehow. Will be a stud UT for years to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

you watch what you want to watch and see what you want to see just so you don't have to actually notice anything that challenges your preconception.

there's a reason why he's slipped as he has and it isn't just people jumping on what they've heard. he's inconsistent in his effort throughout games compared to others at the top of his position. he's got tons of ability, but it's not seen consistently enough. people just don't see enough consistency throughout each game to know that aside from a couple big stat fluffing plays a game if he's going to put enough constant pressure on the backfield to help the defense stop the offense from moving down the field and into the endzone.

i can't make you see what you don't want to see that everyone else watching sees....he's not consistent and the question is why and what can be done to help him be consistent.

he's capable of doing some great highlight reel looking things, which he does. he's just not that guy that is going to wear out offenses. others around him do the work all game and then he takes advantage of small and infrequent windows of opportunities OLs give him. thats the long and short of short.

agree with it or not, but that's why he's sliding. he's a buyers beware type player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Sean Gilbert was a fist rounder, Smitty a third..
You fail to see what you want to fail to see.. well something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='rayzor' timestamp='1365434758' post='2188738']
you watch what you want to watch and see what you want to see just so you don't have to actually notice anything that challenges your preconception.

there's a reason why he's slipped as he has and it isn't just people jumping on what they've heard. he's inconsistent in his effort throughout games compared to others at the top of his position. he's got tons of ability, but it's not seen consistently enough. people just don't see enough consistency throughout each game to know that aside from a couple big stat fluffing plays a game if he's going to put enough constant pressure on the backfield to help the defense stop the offense from moving down the field and into the endzone.

i can't make you see what you don't want to see that everyone else watching sees....he's not consistent and the question is why and what can be done to help him be consistent.

he's capable of doing some great highlight reel looking things, which he does. he's just not that guy that is going to wear out offenses. others around him do the work all game and then he takes advantage of small and infrequent windows of opportunities OLs give him. thats the long and short of short.

agree with it or not, but that's why he's sliding. he's a buyers beware type player.
[/quote]

I see exactly what is happening.

Take that vid the other poster posted. I see tackles for loss, driving OG back, generating pressure, sacks, getting double teamed.

Like I said, find me a game i can view online where his is "inconsistent" anymore than any other DT in this draft is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='Dash Global' timestamp='1365437058' post='2188765']

I see exactly what is happening.

Take that vid the other poster posted. I see tackles for loss, driving OG back, generating pressure, sacks, getting double teamed.

Like I said, find me a game i can view online where his is "inconsistent" anymore than any other DT in this draft is.
[/quote]i saw that other game. i saw what i see every time. a few minutes of being a stud and the rest of the time being just another guy on the field.

i provided a clip, you watched only one minute of it. i fail to see how providing more examples would matter since you've obviously decided that you aren't going to see anything except what you want to see. kind of the whole "you can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

with the quality of DTs in this draft, teams are looking for more than a guy who puts up crazy stats because of a handful of plays a game while being just another fat guy on the field the rest of the time.

i mean i would take him in the 3rd round (if we had one) maybe, but at #44...there's better choices this year, imo. teams that pass him up a couple times won't be bothered.

given a choice between short and jesse williams, i'm going to take jesse williams, stats be damned. i see in him a guy that keeps on pushing back the OLine every down and that won't be pushed back i see consistent pressure on the backfield. with short i see a guy who is dangerous in spurts, but who just as or more often gets pushed around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Yeah I agree with Dash and Toundra I think Short was pretty impressive, if not dominant, in that Illinois game, especially in the 4th quarter. He played the run and pass well in that game and consistently beat #73 1-on-1.

Truth of the matter is, though, the knock on Short is justified as he did take plays off and he even admitted as much as to scouts in interviews. He also stated that a lot of it had to do with the amount of plays he was playing at 320 lbs. while at Purdue, something like 75 plays per game, and has since dropped down to about 300 lbs.

Short has top 10 ability and would probably be in the discussion for 1st DL selected if it wasn't for the aforementioned concerns. There's a strong chance he'll still go in the 1st but if he is still there @ 44, he'd be a real steal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='BigBeezy' timestamp='1365442247' post='2188834']
Yeah I agree with Dash and Toundra I think Short was pretty impressive, if not dominant, in that Illinois game, especially in the 4th quarter. He played the run and pass well in that game and consistently beat #73 1-on-1.

[u][i][b]Truth of the matter is, though, the knock on Short is justified as he did take plays off and he even admitted as much as to scouts in interviews. He also stated that a lot of it had to do with the amount of plays he was playing at 320 lbs. while at Purdue, something like 75 plays per game, and has since dropped down to about 300 lbs.[/b][/i][/u]

Short has top 10 ability and would probably be in the discussion for 1st DL selected if it wasn't for the aforementioned concerns. There's a strong chance he'll still go in the 1st but if he is still there @ 44, he'd be a real steal.
[/quote]
you see if that is [i]truly[/i] all it is and it's under control, i'm fine. like i said, people just don't know what they are going to going to get with him and that's been the problem. like you said, the knock has been justified and earned because he isn't consistent. he's a risky bet even if in the second round because you haven't seen the consistency that's been there and i'm not going to discuss anymore that angle because either you see the lack of consistency that most people do, or you don't.

but here's another concern about that reason given about dropping that weight. what's going to stop him from gaining that weight back once he's not trying to get drafted? we've seen what he looks like with that weight on and he's only going to be getting heavier (that's just the life of a fat guy). are we going to see that again? the chances are likely that we will (or whoever drafts him). his weight isn't stabilized. it's just another angle on the uncertainty that comes with this guy.

he could be a guy who keeps his weight under control and who gives consistent effort all game every game in which case he could be a perinnial all-pro. or he could put the weight back on and/or continue to be that guy who can make big plays happen a couple times a game but who you're going to have to rotate in with other guys to get better and more consistent pressure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='rayzor' timestamp='1365445617' post='2188888']
you see if that is [i]truly[/i] all it is and it's under control, i'm fine. like i said, people just don't know what they are going to going to get with him and that's been the problem. like you said, the knock has been justified and earned because he isn't consistent. he's a risky bet even if in the second round because you haven't seen the consistency that's been there and i'm not going to discuss anymore that angle because either you see the lack of consistency that most people do, or you don't.

but here's another concern about that reason given about dropping that weight. what's going to stop him from gaining that weight back once he's not trying to get drafted? we've seen what he looks like with that weight on and he's only going to be getting heavier (that's just the life of a fat guy). are we going to see that again? the chances are likely that we will (or whoever drafts him). his weight isn't stabilized. it's just another angle on the uncertainty that comes with this guy.

he could be a guy who keeps his weight under control and who gives consistent effort all game every game in which case he could be a perinnial all-pro. or he could put the weight back on and/or continue to be that guy who can make big plays happen a couple times a game but who you're going to have to rotate in with other guys to get better and more consistent pressure.
[/quote]

I'm not sure him being overweight or controlling it was necessarily the issue, per se, but rather the number of plays he was playing at times. 75 plays in a game, without ever really coming off the field on defense, is a lot for any DL much less a DT but I understand your concerns.

Will these concerns be an issue going forward? No one really knows but I think that's why the pre-draft process i.e. interviews, visits, talking to coaches, is important to see what type of person he is. If you're confident that it won't be an issue for him then I say take him because the talent and production, despite taking plays off, are there.

I will say this, at least he recognized the issue and has attempted to correct it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites