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Educators in Atlanta surrendering due to massive cheating scandal


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#13 Floppin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:33 PM

Eliminate the federal department of education. Problem solved.

#14 Happy Panther

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:39 PM

I'll fall back to my favorite Freakanomics expression: People will cheat if there is personal incentive to do so.
The teachers cheated because they could gain from it. They didn't cheat for the student's benefit.

If it were a few individual teachers, I would just hammer them with a performance review and fine them if they received bonuses. But the Principles, Superintendant and her Aides should be fired, fined, and charged with fraud.


I agree with the first paragraph. But as to the second, there are plenty of zero tolerance rules out there for kids. This amounts to fraud as far as I am concerned and I would be firing most anyone involved.

#15 Happy Panther

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

Eliminate the federal department of education. Problem solved.


Would you privatize education?

#16 Floppin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:44 PM

Would you privatize education?


Yeah, and allow for parents to apply for subsidized funding if they couldn't afford it - Much like daycare is handled.

#17 cookinwithgas

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:27 PM

If not by standardized testing, how do you propose that we evaluate the effectiveness of teachers or the curriculum?

Oh I forgot...no need for education...we will just let the gov't entitlement programs support those who are left behind.


Haha MadHatter is on record thinking that we need to have elected officials in charge of determining effectiveness of educators

We managed to build the greatest education system in the world without this crap. I'd much rather have my kids learn in school instead of studying for a standardized test. I'd rather trust teachers and dedicated school administrators than a government panel. I'd rather spend our tax dollars training, retaining and rewarding good teachers instead of building more F-35s than we need.

But sure Mad. no standardized testing must mean we have no need for education, keep rollin with your unique perspective.

#18 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:34 PM

I heard that bail set for one of those accused of cheating was around 5 million. Maybe its just me, but that seems a bit excessive. :)

#19 Delhommey

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:22 PM

Yeah, and allow for parents to apply for subsidized funding if they couldn't afford it - Much like daycare is handled.


Because that's one thing you'll NEVER find in private enterprise- fixing the numbers to get a bigger bonus.

#20 Floppin

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:27 PM

Because that's one thing you'll NEVER find in private enterprise- fixing the numbers to get a bigger bonus.


Huh? I think you're missing my point.

#21 Delhommey

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:08 PM

I heard that bail set for one of those accused of cheating was around 5 million. Maybe its just me, but that seems a bit excessive. :)


Meanwhile the bankers who defrauded the nation into the greatest recession since the 1930's are "too big to prosecute."

#22 MadHatter

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:40 AM

Haha MadHatter is on record thinking that we need to have elected officials in charge of determining effectiveness of educators

We managed to build the greatest education system in the world without this crap. I'd much rather have my kids learn in school instead of studying for a standardized test. I'd rather trust teachers and dedicated school administrators than a government panel. I'd rather spend our tax dollars training, retaining and rewarding good teachers instead of building more F-35s than we need.

But sure Mad. no standardized testing must mean we have no need for education, keep rollin with your unique perspective.


As usual CWG...I ask a simple question. You don't answer it and go on another ignorant diatribe.

Without some standardized testing, how do you measure the effectiveness of a school's and teacher's teaching?

You cannot just look at a student's grades at a school. Schools can have very different quality standards.

I understand the issues with having raises, funding, etc tied to just a standardized test. You get the corruption that we see in Atlanta. The standardized test scores should not be the only evaluating factor. But, it should be part of the process.

My question to YOU is what do you think would be a better system. If you are too stupid to answer it intelligently (which is pretty evident by your continuous posts that say nothing), we would just prefer that you sit over in the corner and just shut the fug up.



#23 thatlookseasy

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:42 AM

No...you can blame POS teachers and administrators directly for this.

If we didn't test, cases of kids being promoted without being properly educated would go unchecked even worse.


If you have a systematic problem you dont treat the symptoms, you treat the cause.

If you think Atlanta is the only school system where this kind of cheating occurs (even though funding for all public schools is determined by their standardized test scores), then you are either being intentionally ignorant or incredibly naive

I'm not saying get rid of standardized testing completely, but any teacher will tell you that when you make school funding and teachers pay dependent on the scores, it forces the teacher to "teach to the test" which takes away real class time. So you have a situation where many teachers despise the standardized tests and simultaneously have everything riding on those tests- a perfect recipe to encourage cheating.

You can punish these people all you want, but if you dont treat the cause this will happen again

#24 g5jamz

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:52 AM

I'm not saying get rid of standardized testing completely, but any teacher will tell you that when you make school funding and teachers pay dependent on the scores, it forces the teacher to "teach to the test" which takes away real class time.



First off...this is bs. NCLB was to give empowerment to parents to allow their kids to escape failing schools. If the school wasn't meeting the basic goals, it would go into Title 1 where MORE emphasis is put on that particular school to bring them up. If they continued to fail, the parent would then be offerred the option to move. The grades for funding bs is exactly that...bs. If a teacher truly cared about the student, they'd want them out of a failing school too...even if it were their own.

So you have a situation where many teachers despise the standardized tests and simultaneously have everything riding on those tests- a perfect recipe to encourage cheating.

You can punish these people all you want, but if you dont treat the cause this will happen again


You can go back to two Americas too. Anyone with any semblence of intelligence should've recognized it's near impossible to achieve the grade changes this particular system saw. Incremental? Sure. But this was ridiculous and it wouldn't take much to take a sample of kids and find out that something went awry.