Jump to content


Photo
* - - - - 1 votes

If we added the contract numbers of all the guys we've signed from other teams this offseason...


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#31 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,170 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

Different market now than before. All 32 GMs now look better than 1-2yrs ago

meh, this has been standard practice for teams for years. i mean revolutionary and hard is it to adopt and abide by the idea that you don't pay over market value esp. for mediocre talent, that you round up the bottom of your roster with cheap experienced talent on one year contracts, and that you don't overpay guys just because they are homegrown and you like them?

hurney paid people too much. there's a reason that when most teams were having trouble writing contracts with rosenhaus clients we weren't...we gave him what he wanted.

i have no reason to believe that hurney would have done things close to the way or as well as gettleman has. hurney's way of dealing with the cap situation THAT HE CREATED would have been what he always did and restructure contracts by pushing the hit back instead of cutting it out.


#32 carolina-chuck

carolina-chuck

    HORNETS 2014

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,678 posts
  • LocationKurby

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:04 PM

meh, this has been standard practice for teams for years. i mean revolutionary and hard is it to adopt and abide by the idea that you don't pay over market value esp. for mediocre talent, that you round up the bottom of your roster with cheap experienced talent on one year contracts, and that you don't overpay guys just because they are homegrown and you like them?

hurney paid people too much. there's a reason that when most teams were having trouble writing contracts with rosenhaus clients we weren't...we gave him what he wanted.

i have no reason to believe that hurney would have done things close to the way or as well as gettleman has. hurney's way of dealing with the cap situation THAT HE CREATED would have been what he always did and restructure contracts by pushing the hit back instead of cutting it out.


All 32 gms have brought guys in under 1yr contracts

#33 carolina-chuck

carolina-chuck

    HORNETS 2014

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,678 posts
  • LocationKurby

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:04 PM

you guys act like 1 year deals are some sort of newfangled innovation never seen before. In fact, go back to just last year and most players with question marks got trial deals that were 1 or no more than 2 years, with minimal guaranteed money.

this is the way other teams have been handling business for years to fill their roster. it's just finally reached carolina after the beathard protege was run out and replaced with a more wily executive.


Word. Couldn't have said it any better

#34 carolina-chuck

carolina-chuck

    HORNETS 2014

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,678 posts
  • LocationKurby

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:05 PM

I'll be sure to come back to this thread when the Panthers have kicking troubles this year. I love how people bash Mare because he missed two crucial field goals, yet we have a terrible kicker as the number 1 guy right now.


Show how we can't bring a kicker under a 1yr contract.

#35 Growl

Growl

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,239 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:24 PM

. Hurney was better than Millen and isn't in any sort of running for the worst GM ever. He was good at drafting,



If you can look at Hurney's draft history and deem it good I have a paralyzing fear of what it would take for you to even deem a draft class "average."

We have been one of the worst drafting teams in the league.

Hurney's resume' as a pro personnel evaluator is awful
His resume' as a college prospect evaluator is awful
He had a broken outdated philosophy
His managing of our finances were abysmal and structured contracts to absolutely kill us
He overpaid for everything, often times for players he shouldn't have, setting a standard that will take years to heal from as we watch what talented players we do have leave because they feel we are "lowballing" them.


There's no hyperbole to it. There literally isn't one aspect of his job he was good or even mediocre at.

#36 Stroupe-a-loop

Stroupe-a-loop

    Señor Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:58 PM

If you can look at Hurney's draft history and deem it good I have a paralyzing fear of what it would take for you to even deem a draft class "average."

We have been one of the worst drafting teams in the league.

Hurney's resume' as a pro personnel evaluator is awful
His resume' as a college prospect evaluator is awful
He had a broken outdated philosophy
His managing of our finances were abysmal and structured contracts to absolutely kill us
He overpaid for everything, often times for players he shouldn't have, setting a standard that will take years to heal from as we watch what talented players we do have leave because they feel we are "lowballing" them.


There's no hyperbole to it. There literally isn't one aspect of his job he was good or even mediocre at.


I know just saying bad things and making up stuff like this gem

"He overpaid for everything, often times for players he shouldn't have, setting a standard that will take years to heal from as we watch what talented players we do have leave because they feel we are "lowballing" them."

is fun, but it's not an argument that has any basis in reality.

Hurney's draft classes averaged two consistent starters per class, which was at or above league average last time I checked. When he did go into free agency, he normally made good signings without a big bust that most teams have.

He overpaid a few of his own guys, and made dumb trades with future draft picks. I'm glad he's not still here to do those things, but to say that he's on a level with Matt Millen or other Hall of Fame morons is hyperbole. I want a good GM and Hurney was not that, but he was far from the worst.

#37 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,170 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

Word. Couldn't have said it any better

lol agreeing to that just contradicted most the hurney defense stuff you've been spouting this thread.

he's saying that we're doing it now because hurney is gone.

#38 Ivan The Awesome

Ivan The Awesome

    That wasn't a Penalty.

  • ALL-PRO
  • 9,918 posts
  • LocationNC

Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:28 PM

lol agreeing to that just contradicted most the hurney defense stuff you've been spouting this thread.

he's saying that we're doing it now because hurney is gone.


Don't mind chuck. He's not had a snickers yet.

#39 rainwater

rainwater

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,432 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:56 PM

Show how we can't bring a kicker under a 1yr contract.


I'm sure that guy will be amazing too!

#40 Growl

Growl

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,239 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:28 PM

I know just saying bad things and making up stuff like this gem

"He overpaid for everything, often times for players he shouldn't have, setting a standard that will take years to heal from as we watch what talented players we do have leave because they feel we are "lowballing" them."

is fun, but it's not an argument that has any basis in reality.

Hurney's draft classes averaged two consistent starters per class, which was at or above league average last time I checked. When he did go into free agency, he normally made good signings without a big bust that most teams have.

He overpaid a few of his own guys, and made dumb trades with future draft picks. I'm glad he's not still here to do those things, but to say that he's on a level with Matt Millen or other Hall of Fame morons is hyperbole. I want a good GM and Hurney was not that, but he was far from the worst.


Define "consistent starters."

Sherrod Martin and captain Munnerlyn? Is that your definition? What about the other years where we came up with nothing?

You can throw around cheap Internet cliches until your blue in the face, you're not going to anybody with a lick of sensibility here that support that notion that Hurney was "average."

If he was average perhaps we wouldn't be one of the worst drafting teams in the league. If he was average perhaps our finance situation wouldn't have been the worst in the league. If he was average perhaps we wouldn't have an abundance of holes across the roster's starting line up, backed up by essentially zero depth. There is nothing "average" about his track record here and to say he wasnt in a similar class with Matt millen just because you've heard millen get hype indicates you haven't actually looked at the track record


Marty Hurney was horrible at his job. There's nothing trendy about that. You think I find it "hip" to say that the panthers have been awful? Lol at that.
There is absolutely nothing to defend him with. He wasn't average. He wasn't mediocre. He was a very, very poor general manager.

He left us in a horrible position that will take years to recover from, without the means truly address the issues on the roster that he abandoned in favor of playing it safe.




#41 Stroupe-a-loop

Stroupe-a-loop

    Señor Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:09 PM

Define "consistent starters."

Sherrod Martin and captain Munnerlyn? Is that your definition? What about the other years where we came up with nothing?

You can throw around cheap Internet cliches until your blue in the face, you're not going to anybody with a lick of sensibility here that support that notion that Hurney was "average."

If he was average perhaps we wouldn't be one of the worst drafting teams in the league. If he was average perhaps our finance situation wouldn't have been the worst in the league. If he was average perhaps we wouldn't have an abundance of holes across the roster's starting line up, backed up by essentially zero depth. There is nothing "average" about his track record here and to say he wasnt in a similar class with Matt millen just because you've heard millen get hype indicates you haven't actually looked at the track record


I consider a consistent starter a guy who has started 3+ seasons of games (36 total) which is a pretty reasonable standard. And he found a lot of those and pro bowlers in the draft. He was pretty good at drafting players, did a lot of other dumb stuff, but pretty good in the draft. He also left us with a Franchise Quarterback and MLB, so the cupboard isn't exactly bare.

As for Munnerlyn, you know a seventh rounder that's a quality nickel and decent spot starter is a good pick right?

You can call my post "cheap internet cliches" but you haven't shown anything, at any point to prove we are "one of the worst drafting teams in the league", besides saying it. It's the NFL, our financial situation isn't that bad. Next year we are on the other side of a bunch of his extensions' bonus money, so it will be fine.

No you clearly haven't looked the track records up, so I'll just show you:

Marty Hurney
Years as GM: 11
Record: 86-90
Number of Probowlers Drafted: 6
Winning Seasons: 3
Losing Seasons: 5

Matt Millen
Years as GM: 8
Record: 31-97
Number of Probowlers Drafted: 3
Winning Seasons: 0
Losing Seasons: 8

Now go ahead and explain to me how those are the same thing.

Hurney wasn't great and deserved to be fired because we can do better, but, if you think he was one of the worst guys ever, you seriously don't know much about football.

#42 Growl

Growl

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,239 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:59 PM

I consider a consistent starter a guy who has started 3+ seasons of games (36 total) which is a pretty reasonable standard. And he found a lot of those and pro bowlers in the draft. He was pretty good at drafting players, did a lot of other dumb stuff, but pretty good in the draft. He also left us with a Franchise Quarterback and MLB, so the cupboard isn't exactly bare.

As for Munnerlyn, you know a seventh rounder that's a quality nickel and decent spot starter is a good pick right?

You can call my post "cheap internet cliches" but you haven't shown anything, at any point to prove we are "one of the worst drafting teams in the league", besides saying it. It's the NFL, our financial situation isn't that bad. Next year we are on the other side of a bunch of his extensions' bonus money, so it will be fine.

No you clearly haven't looked the track records up, so I'll just show you:

Marty Hurney
Years as GM: 11
Record: 86-90
Number of Probowlers Drafted: 6
Winning Seasons: 3
Losing Seasons: 5

Matt Millen
Years as GM: 8
Record: 31-97
Number of Probowlers Drafted: 3
Winning Seasons: 0
Losing Seasons: 8

Now go ahead and explain to me how those are the same thing.

Hurney wasn't great and deserved to be fired because we can do better, but, if you think he was one of the worst guys ever, you seriously don't know much about football.



And here's a CBS article analyzing just how terrible our drafts have been

http://www.cbssports...oster-on-notice


And here's an article from chiefs fans saying "at least we're not Carolina with their GM."

You knows. Chiefs fans. The same people who were buying planes to advertise how terrible their GM was. Sadly, the article makes a ton of great points including mocking how terrible our drafts are

http://www.arrowhead...not-scott-pioli

and finally, as for your "comparison" Id like to make special note that most of the success during that time frame came early on when the team was riding the back of players brought in by the previous regime. The more and more of those players left, the worse our franchise got. If you want to do a fair comparison, why don't you show me marty's track record from the last five years?

That way we can get an accurate depiction of how the roster that hurney himself built performed. I'll be waiting for you to get back to me on that.

#43 Growl

Growl

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,239 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:00 PM

Btw... A consistent starter for the panthers =/= a consistent starter for most teams.

#44 chknwing

chknwing

    Senior Member

  • ALL-PRO
  • 7,594 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

I cant believe this thread isnt locked yet

#45 Stroupe-a-loop

Stroupe-a-loop

    Señor Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:18 PM

and finally, as for your "comparison" Id like to make special note that most of the success during that time frame came early on when the team was riding the back of players brought in by the previous regime. The more and more of those players left, the worse our franchise got. If you want to do a fair comparison, why don't you show me marty's track record from the last five years?

That way we can get an accurate depiction of how the roster than hurney himself built performed. I'll be waiting for you to get back to me on that.


Hurney brought in the quarterback, star defensive end, runningback, best offensive lineman, and head coach. Explain to me who had a bigger hand in the success of that 03 team? You mean the 1-15 team he inherited? Yeah, that thing was loaded. Jesus, Millen was given a playoff team before he ran it into the ground, so that's a dumb argument.

I'm not going to do mental gymnastics for you to help you make some moronic point. This whole argument started because you said

"What amazes me is Hurney's all encompassing failure at his job. Even with renowned horrible GMs like millen, you can still look at them and peg their weaknesses against a list of strengths"

and I said that was hyperbole. Because it is. Or you're dumb, I don't know you so it could be either or both.

Here's there records again, in case you forgot, or thought the first part didn't count for some reason.

Marty Hurney
Years as GM: 11
Record: 86-90
Number of Probowlers Drafted: 6
Winning Seasons: 3
Losing Seasons: 5

Matt Millen
Years as GM: 8
Record: 31-97
Number of Probowlers Drafted: 3
Winning Seasons: 0
Losing Seasons: 8

Explain to me how Millen's better. Or don't, because frankly, it's impossible.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com