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Keenan Allen Pro Day Tommorow.


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#226 SIGCHI222

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:23 PM

Well I was one of those who championed Newton in 2011 and Kuechly in 2012, and I clearly don't see Allen anywhere close to either of those 2. In fact the lack of exceptional talent in the first and the depth of the draft have made me somewhat ambivalent about who to champion this year. But anyone who thinks a receiver who is not heads and shoulders above the others when 100% is worth a top 15 pick when he can't even run all the drills and admits he is only 75% after 5 months of rehab is thinking with his heart and not his head.

And using Jerry Rice's 4.71 to justify drafting an injured receiver is like saying that we should only draft quarterbacks in the 6th round because that is where Tom Brady was drafted.


Ahh, let's use past anomalies to predict the future. Where was Micheal Jordan drafted?
The Bobcats should trade to that position (regardless of cost) every year, correct?

#227 Ivan The Awesome

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:31 PM

Well I was one of those who championed Newton in 2011 and Kuechly in 2012, and I clearly don't see Allen anywhere close to either of those 2. In fact the lack of exceptional talent in the first and the depth of the draft have made me somewhat ambivalent about who to champion this year. But anyone who thinks a receiver who is not heads and shoulders above the others when 100% is worth a top 15 pick when he can't even run all the drills and admits he is only 75% after 5 months of rehab is thinking with his heart and not his head.

And using Jerry Rice's 4.71 to justify drafting an injured receiver is like saying that we should only draft quarterbacks in the 6th round because that is where Tom Brady was drafted.



So we should get Austin then, because he's clearly the #1 guy right? Oh wait no we shouldn't, because he's smitty 2.0..

You're clearly twisting data given. Allen and Rice (pre hall if fame) are and were similar. Same 40 time, height, build, hands. Polished route runner. Etc etc.

He did say for what its worth. Take it with a grain of salt. The similarities are there.


#228 Monday Night Shyamalan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:52 PM

I think Hopkins is the most complete....his ceiling just isn't the highest


Hopkins is a close second for me, I see your point though. A college players ceiling is a variable I hold in high regard, I don't believe most athletes fully develop until their mid-20's (primarily in regards to mental aspects of the game. I would still rather have Hopkins over Patterson, Hunter, Austin, etc.

#229 panthers55

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:54 PM

Ahh, let's use past anomalies to predict the future. Where was Micheal Jordan drafted?
The Bobcats should trade to that position (regardless of cost) every year, correct?

Are you trying to make my argument or what? Didn't you use a past anomaly like Jerry Rice to justify why we should draft Allen? Now you are arguing you shouldn't have done that?????????

#230 panthers55

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:58 PM

So we should get Austin then, because he's clearly the #1 guy right? Oh wait no we shouldn't, because he's smitty 2.0..

You're clearly twisting data given. Allen and Rice (pre hall if fame) are and were similar. Same 40 time, height, build, hands. Polished route runner. Etc etc.

He did say for what its worth. Take it with a grain of salt. The similarities are there.


Actually I am not sold on any receiver at 14. I wouldn't touch one before the second given how many are close in talent. And you are the one twisting data if you think that Jerry Rice and Allen are similar because they each ran a 4.71. Dwayne Jarrett has a similar build, height, hands and was faster than Allen so I guess that means Allen will be as successful as Jarrett was right??? The similarities are there......

And yeah I think it is closer to compare Jarrett to Allen who are similar in size, skill, hands and ability who both came from Pac 12 schools where corners are soft than it is to compare Allen to Jerry Rice.

#231 Promethean Forerunner

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:04 AM

So its not an excuse because he said it and it was true. I'm not even mentioning what his doctor said which by the way, he's a doctor... I advise you re-read my statements and tell me when I mentioned Hopkins or even said that I don't want Hopkins... You're arguing with yourself. Fans like you are quick to dismiss key pieces of information just to be "right".

Just so you don't spew crap and try to put things in my mouth. I want Allen, Hopkins, Hunter. Either one of them is fine with me.

Also saying that Hopkins is better only because Most people say Allen had a crap QB is asenine. Allen had Clausen 2.0 throwing him the ball. Guess what? He produced with that crap QB play. Making him more skillful.


You have reading comprehension issues. Where did I say Hopkins is better than Allen? Please point that out to me. I would really like to see where I made such a statement. I've repeatedly said there's no true stud in this draft and that prospects like Allen, Hopkins, Rogers and Bailey are basically cut from the same cloth.

It's not about being 'right', Einstein. Fans like yourself have been blabbing about how special Allen is as a WR but I don't see it. He's on par with Hopkins (good hands, good routes). So I'm asking what the hell makes Allen superior to Hopkins? In my opinion, nothing. They're virtually identical (only Allen is an inch bigger and a tad more athletic).

Again, the QB excuse only goes so far. If Allen has issues getting separation at the next level, then it doesn't matter if Keenan had a crappy QB. Rogers had Bray throwing the ball to him and still led the SEC in receptions and yards.

Dr. Andrews said his knee was 100% healed and at 85% full capacity. He was fine. 85% wouldn't affect his speed that significantly. I don't care beyond that point. Supporters have been making excuses all day. The fact is Allen has always possessed average speed. His strengths have never revolved around speed anyways. Keenan is a Michael Crabtree -- a possession WR who can break tackles at times.

#232 Monday Night Shyamalan

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:16 AM

Growl
I've come to agree with allot of your posts, but Christ man do you really need to post with such an over compensatory pseudo intellectual vocabulary. You just come off as an asshat.
Relax man.


Exactly what I wanted to say.

#233 pantherclaw

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

So we're not getting him?

;)

#234 MasterAwesome

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

I don't mind the pseudo-intellectual vocab, but the need to use overly-exaggerated quips in quotation marks in literally every other post is extremely childish. I'm assuming he thinks he's being witty, but it's really just annoying and detracts from whatever point he's trying to make.

Example:
Poster: A 4.71 40 is pretty disappointing for Allen...I was hoping for a bit faster time.

Growl: Wow that's all you can come up with?! "Yo DaWg itz all boUtS dat SPEED sonn!! SPeeD GooD, SloW Bad!!!"

He takes a harmless comment and twists it around so that it sounds like it came from a 13 year old with Down Syndrome and puts it in quotation marks as if he's actually quoting the person. That's one hell of a lame debate tactic...it's annoying as poo.

#235 Dash Global

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:37 AM

Allen ran a 4.7?!? Thats terrible for a WR.

#236 koolkatluke

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:48 AM

Growl
I've come to agree with allot of your posts, but Christ man do you really need to post with such an over compensatory pseudo intellectual vocabulary. You just come off as an asshat.
Relax man.



He calls it "intellectually speaking". Don't get but hurt because he has a thesaurus and not afraid to use it.

#237 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:48 AM

Well I was one of those who championed Newton in 2011 and Kuechly in 2012, and I clearly don't see Allen anywhere close to either of those 2. In fact the lack of exceptional talent in the first and the depth of the draft have made me somewhat ambivalent about who to champion this year. But anyone who thinks a receiver who is not heads and shoulders above the others when 100% is worth a top 15 pick when he can't even run all the drills and admits he is only 75% after 5 months of rehab is thinking with his heart and not his head.

And using Jerry Rice's 4.71 to justify drafting an injured receiver is like saying that we should only draft quarterbacks in the 6th round because that is where Tom Brady was drafted.



Wow i was going to point out taking Jerry Rice's 4.71 40 time as an outlier from a guy in the 80's.

Also was going to make a point about Brady with the same logic...I am afraid your using Inception on me!

When most the Wrs are similar and the guy you champion has DR. James Andrews speaking for him... you run!!! The last thing we need is to draft a Dewayne Jarrett 2.0 with Brandon Hogan knees(I know its not a ACL for Allen)

Hopkins explodes out of his cuts which makes his route running exceptional along with hands and understanding of zones.

Allen in healty game film does not explode and there is a lot of jump ball catches ala DEWAYNE JARRETT who was incredible in the same Pac 10.

A WR with little seperation, peed and injury issues is just a guy you have to pass on.

LOL at his punt returning ability..poohing on Austin as a third round talent then praising Allen for his punt returning ability is a clear reality disconnect.

#238 panthers55

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:05 AM

Wow i was going to point out taking Jerry Rive's 4.71 40 time as an outlier from a guy in the 80's.

Also was going to make a point about Brady with the same logic...I am afraid your using Inception on me!

When most the Wrs are similar and the guy you champion has DR. James Andrews speaking for him... you run!!! The last thing we need is to draft a Dewayne Jarrett 2.0 with Brandon Hogan knees(I know its not a ACL for Allen)

Hopkins explodes out of his cuts which makes his route running exceptional along with hands and understanding of zones.

Allen in healty game film does not explode and there is a lot of jump ball catches ala DEWAYNE JARRETT who was incredible in the same Pac 10.

A WR with little seperation, peed and injury issues is just a guy you have to pass on.

LOL at his punt returning ability..poohing on Austin as a third round talent then praising Allen for his punt returning ability is a clear reality disconnect.

Great minds think alike, LOL. I have to admit that I haven't followed Hopkins as much as you have but I do like the fact that he is healthy, really performed last year and was the all around yardage leader
at Clemson.



03/16/2013 - 2013 Clemson Pro Day: DeAndre Hopkins, WR (6-1 1/4; 210 pounds) - "He's going to be the most evaluated player in the draft because he plays faster than his speed indicates," NFL.com's Gil Brandt said. "He was an excellent basketball player. He's got really soft hands and knows how to position his body. He's probably going to be a second-round pick." Hopkins had times of 4.58 and 4.57 seconds in the 40-yard dash. He was timed at 6.83 seconds in the three-cone drill. His vertical jump, broad jump and bench were all the same as from combine. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com

BTW Mayock is now mocking Allen to go anywhere from 25 to 45. He is on his nuts and still wouldn't pull the trigger at 14...... LOL

#239 BelgianPantherFan

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:11 AM

As already said, 4.71 is a bad 40 time for a WR. On the other hand, it won't let GM's drop out on him, they'll just check his speed on tape more closely. No doubt he plays faster than that 4.71.

For me thought, none of this WR-class is a no-brainer at #14. Later in the first maybe, but at #14, I'd rather take a DT.

#240 C47

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:47 AM

As already said, 4.71 is a bad 40 time for a WR. On the other hand, it won't let GM's drop out on him, they'll just check his speed on tape more closely. No doubt he plays faster than that 4.71.

For me thought, none of this WR-class is a no-brainer at #14. Later in the first maybe, but at #14, I'd rather take a DT.


Yes because all of the DTS expected to be on the board at 14 are slam dunks there.....smh.....


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