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Gun Laws, Abortion, Health Care, Taxes, War, Education


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#1 carpantherfan84

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:40 PM

As I scroll through the tinderbox I can't help but wonder. Are our stances on these issues and the entire gambit of political talking points really that strong? Are we so tied to a particular political party that we are blind to reason, compassion, good judgment and sense. HUMANITY for crying out loud.

Is there no middle ground? Reasonable compromise based in a genuine sense of goodness and goodwill. Is it only left or right, red or blue, black or white. Are you disloyal for disagreeing with an idea your party champions? Would a leftie be shunned for hating abortion? Would a rightie be ostracized for believing that no one should be denied health care? If so why? What has any political group done to warrant such loyalty as is given to the likes of O'reilly, or Beck, Maher or Maddows. Why can we not think for ourselves, instead of constantly regurgitating meaningless dribble strewn across the media scape.

Who gets to decide what is right or wrong? The media? The politician? The crowd? The TV preacher? The judge? Has America fallen so low that we are sheep, incapable of deep thought, or free will. What is truly just or decent is seldom hard to define. It is ALWAYS obvious. It is NEVER complicated. It is made complicated by personal decisions and loyalties. Our moral failings are magnified and made acceptable by media talking heads who stoke the fires of iniquity in our heart, sheltering us from the truths of justice, fair play, good will towards our fellow man, self sacrifice, personal accountability, compassion, empathy, charity. Because it would shame us to admit how far we truly live from them.


#2 thefuzz

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:45 PM

I like where your head is.

Personally I call out those things that need calling out, no matter the side. In fact I am pretty fed up with Washington as a whole, and think that both major parties are a bunch of crooks and phoney's.

I don't fit in a box other than I am fiscally extremely conservative. Other than that, not too much bothers me.

#3 Bronn

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 03:48 PM

Yes, most Americans are lazy sheep.

Their beliefs are broadcast to them through their churches, their television news outlets, their websites, etc.

They fail to inform themselves of issues and let their upbringing and lot in life guide their moral compass.

Nothing is going to change until people start getting mad. The scene from Network, yes a movie, is so powerfully true that it is almost sickening that people don't buy into it.

I don't know how to tell people to do anything about it, but the first thing they have to do is get mad.

#4 thefuzz

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

We have a very large contingent of our voting base who don't really know much about our system, and are barely educated.

One group is going to vote for who the church tells them to, the other group votes for who the media tells them to. Both are so dumb that they vote down party lines.

#5 BBQ&Beer

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:52 PM

The people with little to no ambition & drive far out number the ones that do.


Most of these problems arose just after society started, they are just a lot more noticeable due to the Internet & the 24 hr news cycle.

#6 Panthro

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

I don't think we give people ENOUGH credit



#7 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:41 PM

The tinderbox is unfortunately an example of what is wrong in Washington today. To many talking at each other spouting the party lines, making wild statements full of hyperbole. I do believe that in the past, congressmen did and said the same things in a public forum but more often than not, reached compromise deals in backrooms when there was no public eye on them. But now, with the explosion of 24 hour news networks, dozens of news and newstalk channels and the various internet news sources, backroom deals are nearly impossible and god help any politician that pisses off the base. This is true of both parties, but its especially true irt republicans. There aren't many Bob Doles or Sam Nunn's anymore.


Fwiw, I do have some middle of the road positions, at least I think they are somewhat middle of the road. :)

Crazy people and felons should not be able to buy guns. And no one needs an automatic weapon, although I am not sure they can be legally prevented from owning one.

There is no need for capital punishment. It accomplishes nothing except revenge.

I like some elements of Obama care. And I actually wish there was more of a federal option.

Taxes should be raised and spending should be cut and both should be done across the board until the budget is balanced and the debt paid down.

Combat troops should be the last option. George Bush II was correct to send troops into Afghanistan, he was wrong to send them into Iraq, although that can be in part blamed on bad intel. But he made the decision and should have been kicked out in 04, but I am not sure replacing him with Kerry was the right move.

Having an effective education system is critical, and I do believe that teachers should be paid more, once the govt gets the budget issues solved. But I believe that the biggest problem with education today is the students themselves. Well actually the parents of the students anyway.

#8 stirs

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

Very seldom do people vote "for" someone any longer. BO was an exception and phenomena the first time around.

Most elections are based on fear of the alternative candidate. That is how exaggerations, distortions and out right lies seem to lead each campaign. A more knowledgable electorate would render these tactics less successful, but here we are.

#9 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:46 PM

I don't think we give people ENOUGH credit



After helping a family member go thru her finances, I am firmly convinced we give people to much credit.


But I guess you meant the other kind. :)

#10 thatlookseasy

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:25 PM

As I scroll through the tinderbox I can't help but wonder. Are our stances on these issues and the entire gambit of political talking points really that strong? Are we so tied to a particular political party that we are blind to reason, compassion, good judgment and sense. HUMANITY for crying out loud.

Is there no middle ground? Reasonable compromise based in a genuine sense of goodness and goodwill. Is it only left or right, red or blue, black or white. Are you disloyal for disagreeing with an idea your party champions? Would a leftie be shunned for hating abortion? Would a rightie be ostracized for believing that no one should be denied health care? If so why? What has any political group done to warrant such loyalty as is given to the likes of O'reilly, or Beck, Maher or Maddows. Why can we not think for ourselves, instead of constantly regurgitating meaningless dribble strewn across the media scape.

Who gets to decide what is right or wrong? The media? The politician? The crowd? The TV preacher? The judge? Has America fallen so low that we are sheep, incapable of deep thought, or free will. What is truly just or decent is seldom hard to define. It is ALWAYS obvious. It is NEVER complicated. It is made complicated by personal decisions and loyalties. Our moral failings are magnified and made acceptable by media talking heads who stoke the fires of iniquity in our heart, sheltering us from the truths of justice, fair play, good will towards our fellow man, self sacrifice, personal accountability, compassion, empathy, charity. Because it would shame us to admit how far we truly live from them.


Just a heads up- this is the most popular opinion here in the tinderbox. There are only a few really partisan people, they just post a lot

#11 PhillyB

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:40 PM

saussure and levi-strauss were right about binary oppositions

#12 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:48 PM

Here's a summation of 90% of drive-by posts in the tinderbox:

Posted Image

http://tvtropes.org/...ldenMeanFallacy

#13 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:53 PM

the only thing worse than golden mean posters are people who try to dress up their regressive bullshit as the product of the glorious golden mean

#14 Bronn

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:33 PM

The problem with the Golden Mean is that it isn't as broad as a political party.

I totally agree, that with singular issues, you can't really claim the middle ground.

When it comes to an entire political platform, it is totally reasonable to think that one may choose a middle ground due to the inadequacies of either side to cover their belief system.

#15 carpantherfan84

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:35 PM

I have a feeling that I am going to look really dumb because I have never heard of binary opposition, structuralism, nor the glorious golden mean but I will do my best lol. :rolleyes:

Anyways I don't want to give the impression that I am moderate for moderates sake. Or that I am incapable of choosing a side in an argument. I am simply mortified by the consistent practice by otherwise intelligent or reasonable people to spit out verbatim the talking points from the media which in turn become political slogans. These same people who hold down jobs in multiracial settings or work hand in hand gays or who often donate to charities are reduced to mindless parrots for unethical and immoral people.

Personally I stand very rigidly on the issues of race, education, health care, immigration, but I am also a business man and an avid capitalist. I don't want to pay more taxes than I have to and I want to be free to grow my business how I see fit. But if I want to speak any of these issues with anyone else, I have to switch to what I consider a different language. If my rhetoric doesn't match up to what is expected I am ignored. I worry in what direction this nation is headed when there are only two sides, liberalism or conservatism. Do all our concerns as a nation really fit into that neat a box? Is there no compromise. Teach me. I am listening.


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