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#61 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:13 PM

hmm, i can get behind that. i think a massive amount of conflict comes into play in the arena of social issues (which you could argue are principle in the dealing out of ideological stripes.) we'd have a different conversation entirely if we could talk about ideological centrism as it pertains to social issues alone, or isolate economic ones and discuss them


the problem is it's p hard to separate social issues from economic ones. there's more to being socially "liberal" than "i wanna smoke weed and hey let's let gay people get married"; equality requires market intervention

#62 PhillyB

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:15 PM

OP you mentioned tinderbox posters spouting talking points from the MSM in the first paragraph so let's list names and examples


G5 and stirs are the only ones i see consistently linking to right-wing propaganda sources, but i don't think OP's point was to illustrate the problem of polarization through specific huddle posters... unless i misread it.

#63 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:15 PM

I am sure that there are things you feel strongly about. I am sure that you would go to the ends of the Earth (or at least the end of a keyboard) in order to convey the validity of your belief to those that you feel in need of your enlightenment. But do you pick those opinions based on your sense of right or wrong? Do you have a moral compass like every other human being in the world? Or do you simply pick your side based on what you as a liberal or conservative, dem or rep, black or white, northerner or southerner would be expected to. Is it possible to change the culture of this nation. Change it into something other than what the talking heads tell us we should be. We all want things to be better. Some of us have seen horrors of this world that others cant imagine. And we have learned that there is truly a right, as opposed to wrong. There is morality that is clearly defined and visible to us all. But in an attempt to be true to people that do not deserve such loyalty, we as a nation tend to shed our morality in hopes of fulfilling the perfect image of our chosen group, regardless of the goodness or lack thereof that exists in our chosen arguments


We all base our opinions on our experiences, and our experiences are what cause our beliefs to change. And because of that, its certainly possible for a culture, any culture, to change, and in fact, people and cultures constantly change. Just not always in the ways we desire.

But I do think there have been some tremendous changes in our culture over the last 50 to 100 years, most of the changes are positive, but not all of them. And I do think that we will continue, at least for a while to improve our society.

#64 pstall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:20 PM

you can tell who has kids, young kids and no kids. ye olde perspective changes dramatically.

i like what my dad told my when I was still in high school. don't tell me you have a philosophy on life until you reach 40. he was SPOT on.

the things some in the tbox wring their hands over is comical. when you don't have an identity outside of your posts or news feeds, your shallowness can only be fed by the same stuff over and over again.


what i appreciate about the op is he is genuinely being humble and curious about how to navigate thru these issues as well as where people stand.

it says alot about a person when they come from that stance as well as self deprecation. of which, multiple times he has done so in one thread.

my 2 biggest pet peeves with people is arrogance and taking one's self WAAAAAAAAAAAY to serious.

op you are on the right track sir. keep it up.

#65 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:23 PM

G5 and stirs are the only ones i see consistently linking to right-wing propaganda sources, but i don't think OP's point was to illustrate the problem of polarization through specific huddle posters... unless i misread it.


I doubt he can provide examples but I realize the point was to be passive agressive about it.

I was just wondering if he would actually elaborate on who he thinks he's smarter than I mean "more informed than" or whatever.

#66 PhillyB

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:23 PM

the problem is it's p hard to separate social issues from economic ones. there's more to being socially "liberal" than "i wanna smoke weed and hey let's let gay people get married"; equality requires market intervention


i agree, i think distribution of production surplus is tied intrinsically to social issues; it's been the number one socio-economic question facing humanity since mesolithic hunter-gatherers figured out how to domesticate plants.

that said, the political scene is often dominated by issues that stem largely from religious interpretation of human behavior... there seems to be a huge disparity between the importance of an issue and the weight it holds in public opinion. and this, i think, is where centrism becomes a complicated issue, when what it means to be a centrist is defined almost entirely in the weight the individual - or collective group of individuals - places in the issue.

#67 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:31 PM

If you would like an example of drive-by nothing-posts I was talking about earlier...

you can tell who has kids, young kids and no kids. ye olde perspective changes dramatically.

i like what my dad told my when I was still in high school. don't tell me you have a philosophy on life until you reach 40. he was SPOT on.

the things some in the tbox wring their hands over is comical. when you don't have an identity outside of your posts or news feeds, your shallowness can only be fed by the same stuff over and over again.


what i appreciate about the op is he is genuinely being humble and curious about how to navigate thru these issues as well as where people stand.

it says alot about a person when they come from that stance as well as self deprecation. of which, multiple times he has done so in one thread.

my 2 biggest pet peeves with people is arrogance and taking one's self WAAAAAAAAAAAY to serious.

op you are on the right track sir. keep it up.



#68 pstall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:32 PM

i think some fear a person who is a moderate because it truly challenges them to their core because there is a deficit of objectivity. in fact, it's borderline delusional because that objectivity gene can't be found and not only doesn't make it impossible for an individual to come to some form of self awareness, it makes it also virtually impossible for them to detect it in others.

its really someone who is self absorbed that falls into the trap of not being able to see the other side of the coin and or be able to admit they are wrong or off base about something.

what i described are some posters, sure. but what also have described is the vast majority of politicans in DC and at the state and local level.

if we focused more on the practical or had a more pragmatic approach to issues, it keeps us out of the weeds of extremism.

#69 teeray

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:32 PM

I am sure that there are things you feel strongly about. I am sure that you would go to the ends of the Earth (or at least the end of a keyboard) in order to convey the validity of your belief to those that you feel in need of your enlightenment. But do you pick those opinions based on your sense of right or wrong? Do you have a moral compass like every other human being in the world? Or do you simply pick your side based on what you as a liberal or conservative, dem or rep, black or white, northerner or southerner would be expected to. Is it possible to change the culture of this nation. Change it into something other than what the talking heads tell us we should be. We all want things to be better. Some of us have seen horrors of this world that others cant imagine. And we have learned that there is truly a right, as opposed to wrong. There is morality that is clearly defined and visible to us all. But in an attempt to be true to people that do not deserve such loyalty, we as a nation tend to shed our morality in hopes of fulfilling the perfect image of our chosen group, regardless of the goodness or lack thereof that exists in our chosen arguments


Part of the problem is that facts and trust has been so distorted, they nobody believes what anyone says anymore.

For example, all news is liberally biased, Fox News is a mouthpiece for conservatism, fact check websites are left wing nuts, Harvard studies are just liberals trying to corrupt data to meet an agenda, etc.

It has gotten to the point where if you are trying to be objective and think for yourself it is becoming increasingly hard to know what is true and what is manipulated.

It has gotten so convoluted that people just pick a side and allow pundits to tell them what is the truth and tell them how to feel about it because most people don't trust anything anymore (one side is a little worse about this than the other, but I digress).

And then of course their is assumed reality based on your personal beliefs that have been built through your life experiences. The old saying is "you usually see what you expect to see".

I battle with that all the time. I am not affiliated with a party. I was most recently a Republican, but most on the people here in the tinderbox chide me for being just a blind liberal Obama supporter. I don't think I am. I try to be objective, but I did vote for Obama twice, so perhaps I am just seeing what I expect or want to see. I am cognizant of it, and try to avoid it by getting legitimate facts from non partisan sources, but even I question myself from time to time. I am constantly asking myself, "Is this really good policy, or do i just want it to be good policy because I voted for the guy"

Then again I voted for McCrory and I already regret that decision. So maybe I am good ;)

So I guess the short answer is, "How do you think for yourself when you don't know who or what to trust and who or what is telling you the truth? How do you make decisions, if you don't believe the data you are receiving to make those decisions?"

#70 pstall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:33 PM

If you would like an example of drive-by nothing-posts I was talking about earlier...


way to carry the douche torch.

#71 pstall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:36 PM

Part of the problem is that facts and trust has been so distorted, they nobody believes what anyone says anymore.

For example, all news is liberally biased, Fox News is a mouthpiece for conservatism, fact check websites are left wing nuts, Harvard studies are just liberals trying to corrupt data to meet an agenda, etc.

It has gotten to the point where if you are trying to be objective and think for yourself it is becoming increasingly hard to know what is true and what is manipulated.

It has gotten so convoluted that people just pick a side and allow pundits to tell them what is the truth and tell them how to feel about it because most people don't trust anything anymore (one side is a little worse about this than the other, but I digress).

And then of course their is assumed reality based on your personal beliefs that have been built through your life experiences. The old saying is "you usually see what you expect to see".

I battle with that all the time. I am not affiliated with a party. I was most recently a Republican, but most on the people here in the tinderbox chide me for being just a blind liberal Obama supporter. I don't think I am. I try to be objective, but I did vote for Obama twice, so perhaps I am just seeing what I expect or want to see. I am cognizant of it, and try to avoid it by getting legitimate facts from non partisan sources, but even I question myself from time to time. I am constantly asking myself, "Is this really good policy, or do i just want it to be good policy because I voted for the guy"

Then again I voted for McCrory and I already regret that decision. So maybe I am good ;)

So I guess the short answer is, "How do you think for yourself when you don't know who or what to trust and who or what is telling you the truth? How do you make decisions, if you don't believe the data you are processing to make those decisions?"


totally agree. be prepared for sz or cant, our huddle psycologists, to diagnois you as a nothing poo poster who drives by and you don't fit their narrow shallow view of issues because herpa derpa dee its all about left or right or black or white or ford or chevy or lakers or celtics or naz or kayne or turkey or ham or charcoal or gas or paper or plastic or grass fed beef or corn fed beef or dry fap or lubed fap or...or...or...or...or....

#72 PhillyB

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:39 PM

totally agree. be prepared for sz or cant, our huddle psycologists, to diagnois you as a nothing poo poster who drives by and you don't fit their narrow shallow view of issues because herpa derpa dee its all about left or right or black or white or ford or chevy or lakers or celtics or naz or kayne or turkey or ham or charcoal or gas or paper or plastic or grass fed beef or corn fed beef or dry fap or lubed fap or...or...or...or...or....


does anyone here subscribe to or endorse this view?

#73 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:41 PM

does anyone here subscribe to or endorse this view?


why yes I subscribe to false paradigms and strawmen arguments

#74 pstall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:42 PM

does anyone here subscribe to or endorse this view?


isn't siegfied and roy of the tinderbox the ones that say its not about the middle rabble rabble..its not centrist...?

sure though. there are some that are hardcore left and hardcore right no?

#75 pstall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

why yes I subscribe to false paradigms and strawmen arguments


being a moderate is a false paradigm?


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