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Should we draft 2 DT?


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#61 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:40 PM

I hate this whole "bust rate myth". Some positions are harder to evaluate than others. It doesn't mean you don't fuging draft those positions or only put late draft picks into it. That's how we ended up with 5 years worth of first round LBs and RBs. DTs, WRs, QBs, etc are harder to predict but they're also very valuable and critical positions. Ignoring them leads to the worst run defense in the league, or worst pass offense in the league or things like that. Avoiding positions because "they have a high bust rate" is crippling your team.

#62 L-TownCat

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

Dude you tried to make a valid point. I just countered it.


No you didn't, you took the fact that WR and DT bust about the same over the past 5 years and applied it to my argument against drafting a DT in the first round of this years daft. Because WR bust as much as a DT doesn't change that I don't think we should be drafting a DT in the first round. My opinion of this particular draft is that DT is the riskier position. It has depth at that position that we can probably get better value and comparable production outside the first round.

#63 koolkatluke

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

No you didn't, you took the fact that WR and DT bust about the same over the past 5 years and applied it to my argument against drafting a DT in the first round of this years daft. Because WR bust as much as a DT doesn't change that I don't think we should be drafting a DT in the first round. My opinion of this particular draft is that DT is the riskier position. It has depth at that position that we can probably get better value and comparable production outside the first round.


Then you're a fuging hypocrite. You can't say "I don't want to draft a DT in the 1st because they have a high bust rate". But then say I want a WR in the 1st. When they have the same bust rate.

Do you not see the problem with your statement?

#64 L-TownCat

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

Then you're a fuging hypocrite. You can't say "I don't want to draft a DT in the 1st because they have a high bust rate". But then say I want a WR in the 1st. When they have the same bust rate.

Do you not see the problem with your statement?


I don't see what is so terribly hard to understand here. I think this years crop of DTs are sketchy. Conversely I feel that this crop of WR has better top end talent. If I had to choose at 14 I would feel more comfortable taking WR than DT this year. But why is this about me? Why does my opinion matter to you so much? What is it about these DTs that has your pants so tight? Do you want one jst because we don't have one or is because you see superstar talent that can't be passed on at that position? Please instead of dissecting my opinion share yours. I've delivered my opinions several times. Lets talk about yours for a bit.

#65 L-TownCat

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:34 PM

I hate this whole "bust rate myth". Some positions are harder to evaluate than others. It doesn't mean you don't fuging draft those positions or only put late draft picks into it. That's how we ended up with 5 years worth of first round LBs and RBs. DTs, WRs, QBs, etc are harder to predict but they're also very valuable and critical positions. Ignoring them leads to the worst run defense in the league, or worst pass offense in the league or things like that. Avoiding positions because "they have a high bust rate" is crippling your team.


I'm with ya on that. You make a very valid point here. But if I may make a suggestion that could prevent you from having to make such a decision? Actually using free agency to address and to evaluate positions. Let someone else take the chance in the draft, then scoop them up after their deals expire. It's not a perfect plan and if the right can't miss prospect is their you can still draft him. It jst all goes back to balance of FA and draft and a teams ability to evaluate. This is what I'm and the rest of us are hoping G-man can do for us.

#66 Baby Andy Reid

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

Only way I would do this would be a trade back to 17 and pick up another pick and star is still on the board.

First round star

Then maybe long or armstead in the second
Bacarri Rambo with our added third

Fourth round Montori Hughes

Fifth round best available og

Sixth round kicker

#67 koolkatluke

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:45 PM

I don't see what is so terribly hard to understand here. I think this years crop of DTs are sketchy. Conversely I feel that this crop of WR has better top end talent. If I had to choose at 14 I would feel more comfortable taking WR than DT this year. But why is this about me? Why does my opinion matter to you so much? What is it about these DTs that has your pants so tight? Do you want one jst because we don't have one or is because you see superstar talent that can't be passed on at that position? Please instead of dissecting my opinion share yours. I've delivered my opinions several times. Lets talk about yours for a bit.


Scouts Inc top 32
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

3 DT before the 1st WR shows up at 14

6 DT in the top 32 2 wr

Gil Brandts top 100
http://www.nfl.com/n...all-draft-class

7 DT in the top 50 prospects 5 WR

CBS sports
http://www.cbssports...rospectrankings

6 DT - 6 WR the catch 4 DT in the top 25 to 2 WR

SI
http://sportsillustr...rd-4/index.html

5 DT in the top 40 4 WR.

Point is all the major football sites don't agree with you.





Read the 1st Post since I made the thread you can see my opinion.

#68 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:51 PM

I hate this whole "bust rate myth". Some positions are harder to evaluate than others. It doesn't mean you don't fuging draft those positions or only put late draft picks into it. That's how we ended up with 5 years worth of first round LBs and RBs. DTs, WRs, QBs, etc are harder to predict but they're also very valuable and critical positions. Ignoring them leads to the worst run defense in the league, or worst pass offense in the league or things like that. Avoiding positions because "they have a high bust rate" is crippling your team.


My concern is that it seems like the quick, athletic DTs that "struggle against the run" are the types of DTs that tend to bust. Teams fall in love with their athleticism and upside and all they think about is how disruptive they could potentially be at the next level without considering how many of those types of players don't work out at the NFL level.

This draft is chock full of that exactly type of DT.

#69 L-TownCat

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:54 PM

That kind of helps make my point. If 3 of the DTs are gone before we even make a pick you still want to take a shot at what's left? Really? I'm gonna take te 4th best DT instead of the best WR? Seems legit.

#70 LinvilleGorge

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:57 PM

Scouts Inc top 32
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

3 DT before the 1st WR shows up at 14

6 DT in the top 32 2 wr

Gil Brandts top 100
http://www.nfl.com/n...all-draft-class

7 DT in the top 50 prospects 5 WR

CBS sports
http://www.cbssports...rospectrankings

6 DT - 6 WR the catch 4 DT in the top 25 to 2 WR

SI
http://sportsillustr...rd-4/index.html

5 DT in the top 40 4 WR.

Point is all the major football sites don't agree with you.





Read the 1st Post since I made the thread you can see my opinion.


The good thing is that this draft seems perfect for addressing two of our biggest needs. If we chose to do so, we should be able to go WR/DT or DT/WR with our 1st and 2cd rounders and get good value on positions where we have a big need.

Either way, our 1st and 2cd rounders will consist of some combo of OT, DT, WR, or DB. That much you can take to the bank.

#71 koolkatluke

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:44 PM

That kind of helps make my point. If 3 of the DTs are gone before we even make a pick you still want to take a shot at what's left? Really? I'm gonna take te 4th best DT instead of the best WR? Seems legit.


If the 4th best DT is considered a better prospect then yes.

#72 Baby Andy Reid

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:48 PM

Richardson is a bad fit!!!

#73 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:03 PM

My concern is that it seems like the quick, athletic DTs that "struggle against the run" are the types of DTs that tend to bust. Teams fall in love with their athleticism and upside and all they think about is how disruptive they could potentially be at the next level without considering how many of those types of players don't work out at the NFL level.

This draft is chock full of that exactly type of DT.


I agree with you totally. I'm leery of the DTs like Floyd, Richardson and Short too. I think Richardson's motor could help him overcome that perceived problem, but he's far from my first choice. I'm much more on board with guys like Star, Hankins, S. Williams, J. Williams.



#74 L-TownCat

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

If the 4th best DT is considered a better prospect then yes.


I agree with that but we both know that in this draft that is not the case.

#75 Snake

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:08 AM

But I'm not looking into th future. I don't care it they're in 1yr deals. I'm looking at now, and I believe we're better there now than last year.


We are rebuilding from the Hurney disaster. If your not looking to the future your going to be disappointed.


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