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Let's get this Party Started. How do we Beat Seattle?


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#133 Kurb

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:11 AM

Will Shula be a failure as OC of the Panthers? Dunno
Will Shula be an awesome OC of the Panthers? Dunno


This

#134 La Pantera

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:29 AM

Score more points than they do.

#135 panthers55

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:20 AM

You guys are right.

Just by getting older the last 5 years he is instantly better at play calling and game planning. I mean, there is a huge different between a 42 year old and a 47 year old. He was just a kid!

Some of you seem absolutely certain he has improved a great deal, which is insanity.

I can admit I am not 100% positive he will stink it up, all I can go on is his resume, (I know some of you choose to completely ignore it. I doubt you have actually done any hiring in your life)

1996-1999 OC of the Bucs. One of the worst NFL offenses in the league. Could not move ball inside red zone. (OMGZ it was the players fault!) - Fired
2000 - 2002 QB Coach of Miami Dolphins thanks to the Don making a phone call.
2003-2006 Alabama Head Coach went 6-6 in his final year when generally people expected at least 9 wins. Could not move ball inside red zone. Fired. (OMGZ it was the players!)
2007-2010 - Jax QB coach - Does a solid job with Garrard
2011-2012 - QB coach Carolina,does a solid job with Cam.

Looking at his past I see a guy that is a great talent at QB coaching. One on one communication and encouragement. It is, however, a completely different skill set than offensive coordinator.

Then I ask myself a few more questions...

1) Was Shula in the running for any OC job in the league including one that Chud may have open in Cleveland? No
2) Were the Panthers quick to promote him as the obvious choice to replace Chud? No

So why was he hired? I feel he was hired as Rivera's last ditch effort as a winning season. We all know he is fired if they do not win this year. His choice was a) risk a slow start with a brand new OC or B ) promote from within system and hope for the best. He chose B. Can't blame him really. So who on his staff would need the least amount of time adjusting to being an OC? Well, the guy that has done it before, even if he failed at it.

Will Shula be a failure as OC of the Panthers? Dunno
Will Shula be an awesome OC of the Panthers? Dunno

If you had to wager your life on either of these, which would it be? Sadly, based on all this info, I would have to choose the former.

<derp>OMGZ, Zod is sucha troll! he just wants teh hits< /derp>


I have hired hundreds of people and I know that you have to evaluate people for specific jobs and roles based on a number of factors, not least of which includes familiarity with the organization. I think you are right in saying that Rivera needed someone to start quickly and be familiar with the offense. He needed someone who would instantly mesh with Newton and could bring out the best in him.

What you perceive as a last ditch effort I perceive as the absolute best decision he could make given his options. And I think it is going to be a great decision. You can't compare what happened in Tampa a decade ago to what is happening here in Carolina. We have much better talent than Tampa had and courtesy of Chud, we have a very good playbook and offensive scheme for Shula to run. Shula doesn't have to be Chud or brilliant. He only has to be keep helping Newton make great decisions and rely on the running game which we largely marginalized last year.

I don't know if Shula would be great in other systems for other teams based on what he did in the past. But I do think that right here and now is the perfect situation for him to redeem himself. He will be highly motivated to perform well and will make every effort he can to correct the things he did poorly in the past. He understands offenses having been a quarterback in the NFL and surely is great with Newton which many feel was the reason we struggled early in the year. I don't think that calling the actual plays is as hard as some make it out to be. I don't know though, since I haven't done it. Still he has and likely learned quite a bit from his successes as well as his mistakes. He is a bright guy after all. He doesn't have to build anything though, just keep things running. All we need to do is start off quicker instead of waiting for the last half of the season.

I just think that promoting an employee from within who has a big desire to succeed and will work tirelessly to prove your trust in him is almost always a great idea. Particularly if your system through which he was groomed was already a successful one.

#136 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:21 AM

You guys are right.

Just by getting older the last 5 years he is instantly better at play calling and game planning. I mean, there is a huge different between a 42 year old and a 47 year old. He was just a kid!

Some of you seem absolutely certain he has improved a great deal, which is insanity.

I can admit I am not 100% positive he will stink it up, all I can go on is his resume, (I know some of you choose to completely ignore it. I doubt you have actually done any hiring in your life)

1996-1999 OC of the Bucs. One of the worst NFL offenses in the league. Could not move ball inside red zone. (OMGZ it was the players fault!) - Fired
2000 - 2002 QB Coach of Miami Dolphins thanks to the Don making a phone call.
2003-2006 Alabama Head Coach went 6-6 in his final year when generally people expected at least 9 wins. Could not move ball inside red zone. Fired. (OMGZ it was the players!)
2007-2010 - Jax QB coach - Does a solid job with Garrard
2011-2012 - QB coach Carolina,does a solid job with Cam.

Looking at his past I see a guy that is a great talent at QB coaching. One on one communication and encouragement. It is, however, a completely different skill set than offensive coordinator.

Then I ask myself a few more questions...

1) Was Shula in the running for any OC job in the league including one that Chud may have open in Cleveland? No
2) Were the Panthers quick to promote him as the obvious choice to replace Chud? No

So why was he hired? I feel he was hired as Rivera's last ditch effort as a winning season. We all know he is fired if they do not win this year. His choice was a) risk a slow start with a brand new OC or B ) promote from within system and hope for the best. He chose B. Can't blame him really. So who on his staff would need the least amount of time adjusting to being an OC? Well, the guy that has done it before, even if he failed at it.

Will Shula be a failure as OC of the Panthers? Dunno
Will Shula be an awesome OC of the Panthers? Dunno

If you had to wager your life on either of these, which would it be? Sadly, based on all this info, I would have to choose the former.

<derp>OMGZ, Zod is sucha troll! he just wants teh hits< /derp>


You seem determined to ignore the fact that those Tampa Bay rosters were almost devoid of offensive talent. Take the name Shula off your mind, go back and look at those rosters, remember that they were Dungy-led squads (and therefore his offensive philosophies, not Shula's) and explain to me how they could have ever been more than mediocre.

And as for Alabama, again, show me the loads of squandered talent at his disposal. They were a down program that has NEVER been all that offensive-minded.

And why on earth would Shula been in the OC running anywhere else? He's been out of the scene for years, and teams have zero interest in a guy who might have only done as well as could reasonably be expected with mediocre talent.

Just like you don't know if he's improved, you also don't know how he would do with actual talent to work with. Perhaps that's all he'll need.

The reality is that we're not changing offenses. Rivera was very specific in keeping an Air Coryell system and elements of the read option, with perhaps more emphasis on power running and play action. Shula interviewed and showed he had the best understanding of that.

You keep implying that Shula's playcalling was responsible for the poor offenses he oversaw, yet make no mention of the very different schemes he was working with. To use your kitchen analogy, you'll never be able to make a good Italian dish reading from a Chinese cookbook.

To be frank, only two people have had any experience with Chud's playbook, and Chud is gone. That left Shula.

I don't think Shula will ever be one of the top offensive minds in the game. But we didn't have too many options at our disposal; Turner rebuffed us and Hue Jackson wasn't a disciple of the Coryell.

I completely understand that there are huge red flags with Shula. But I really think he's being undersold when the reality of his situations is observed in an impartial light. He did poorly with poor offensive talents; that could speak to either a poor offensive approach or an inability to outperform his offensive limitations. There's a key difference between the two: the first would squander our talent , the second might make good if not spectacular use of it.

And the key to all of this is that, no matter what you think of Shula, his track record for winning despite bad offenses is something we should hope to enjoy.

#137 chknwing

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:23 AM

how do we beat seattle? we score more points.