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mav1234

2nd child of Pa. couple dies after only praying

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if faith heals then, why take medicine at all? it's not very faithful

Because nothing in the text actually suggests that.

You could apply that kind of silly extension to pretty much anything if you wanted ("Why work when you could just pray for money?" etc) but you can't support it with actual text, especially not when you read the rest of the NT.

It's one thing to criticize what someone or something actually says. But if someone else twists what was said or written to mean something it was never intended to, then the person doing the twisting is the one to blame.

And don't give me "but the Bible lends itself to that" because any words can be twisted.

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If faith was 100% then why exist? What would be the point in having ups and downs and weaknesses?

Also there is the old Gods will dillyo. Praying isn't about wanting what you want but trying to be humble and connect with God. Listening to the doc and praying is wise. Even wiser is asking if its Gods will you can be healed. Again no harm in that.

Saying its not faithful is more legalistic than anything else.

Imagine how little we woul rely on God or grow if we always get what we prayed for.

That last blurb will make even more sense when you have a child. They will be perplexed when you say no and they will go but dad I said please.

Fatherhood is a very eye opening event on a host of things.

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i don't think teleology is compatible with a god as an agent of love, despite philosophical contortions to that end. it no longer makes sense to me

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It's very simple: the bible says that he who prays sincerely will get what he prays for. Medical care costs money that not everybody has or wants to pay. God is apparently a free service of healing, according to the bible and the whole "healing the sick and needy". Pray = no money spent, doctor = money spent. These idiots follow this path of thinking, end up killing their kid because prayer doesn't fuging work. This was demonstrated TWICE to them, and GUARANTEED they still don't get it.

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i don't think teleology is compatible with a god as an agent of love, despite philosophical contortions to that end. it no longer makes sense to me

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

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And you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

my opinion is 100% open to being swayed if presented the proper evidence and accompanying argument.

i spent years answering these very questions with the same dogmatic responses that never actually addressed the questions, and having that emic perspective - that is, viewing a system or structure from the insider's point of view - i can speak to the gaps in thinking involved in answering these sorts of questions with the theology that is ultimately bound by certain elements of literal biblical translations.

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Praying to a box of corn flakes will result in essentially the same outcome for your child's health issues as praying to the sky god of your choice. However, the one obvious advantage of praying to a box of corn flakes is this: While waiting in vain for your prayers to be answered, you can serve yourself a tasty and nutritious bowl of cereal that is recognized by the FDA as part of a well balanced diet. True, your child may still die without proper medical treatment, but at least you can console yourself with the thought that you had a sensible breakfast.

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This is an extreme version of an insincere faith.

On the contrary, this appears to be a total and complete faith.

Ignoring medical treatment because you believe with all your heart Jesus will heal him is having total and complete faith in him. It is anything but insincere.

Thank goodness the biological urge to survive overpowers superstition in the vast majority of cases.

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Jesus said if you abide in Him, and His words abide in you, then you shall ask and receive from the Father. You see, there's a condition. I VERY much doubt Jesus words abided in this couple, Jesus words don't abide in most pastors and priests. (And I don't know if the couple abide Him. If they received Jesus into their heart, then they are in Him)

So let's remember what Jesus said, not just being a hearer of the word, deceiving ourselves. Most people just hear what Jesus said, and when things don't happen, they say this stuff doesn't work. He said you must be a doer of the word. With all that said (in response to some of what has been said in this thread about what Jesus said concerning asking and receiving), this couple should have taken their child to the doctor. Of course!!!! Very few, if much of anyone, walks completely like Jesus walked. And Christians shouldn't be arrogant here and lofty, Jesus provided for His disciples with the things they needed. When the disciples were hungry, he let them go through the grain field on the Sabbath to get something to eat. Picking grain is a very pratical way of resolving the problem of hunger. If Jesus did this very pratical thing, we should do the pratical things as well. Yes, I believe in God's power to heal, and all the power of God is in Jesus.

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Jesus said if you abide in Him, and His words abide in you, then you shall ask and receive from the Father. You see, there's a condition. I VERY much doubt Jesus words abided in this couple, Jesus words don't abide in most pastors and priests. (And I don't know if the couple abide Him. If they received Jesus into their heart, then they are in Him)

So let's remember what Jesus said, not just being a hearer of the word, deceiving ourselves. Most people just hear what Jesus said, and when things don't happen, they say this stuff doesn't work. He said you must be a doer of the word. With all that said (in response to some of what has been said in this thread about what Jesus said concerning asking and receiving), this couple should have taken their child to the doctor. Of course!!!! Very few, if much of anyone, walks completely like Jesus walked. And Christians shouldn't be arrogant here and lofty, Jesus provided for His disciples with the things they needed. When the disciples were hungry, he let them go through the grain field on the Sabbath to get something to eat. Picking grain is a very pratical way of resolving the problem of hunger. If Jesus did this very pratical thing, we should do the pratical things as well. Yes, I believe in God's power to heal, and all the power of God is in Jesus.

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