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2nd child of Pa. couple dies after only praying


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#25 pstall

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

Shallow people tend to hide behind anything. Avatars anyone?

This is an extreme version of an insincere faith. Sure faith is a factor but God is also pretty practical. You take one step he takes 2.

@ cat. I never took a NT course.

#26 PhillyB

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

Shallow people tend to hide behind anything. Avatars anyone?

This is an extreme version of an insincere faith. Sure faith is a factor but God is also pretty practical. You take one step he takes 2.

@ cat. I never took a NT course.


do you believe god heals people who pray to him?

i've been contemplating putting this article up on facebook and trying to generate discussion but i have a gut feeling it's going to elicit a bunch of highly defensive responses the are knee-jerk reactions and don't result in anything resembling a constructive dialogue, so i'm sitting on it for now... the huddle is my cohort instead :)

#27 Kral

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:03 PM

They should be charged with murder. 0 tolerance for nonsensical beliefs impacting people other than yourself.

In what way is God practical?

#28 Mr. Scot

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:03 PM

Matthew 21:21-22

Mark 11:20-25

John 14:12-13


Oh yeah. Those verses clearly say "Don't go to the doctor" :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should check these out...

Matthew 9:12

Mark 2:17

Luke 5:31

#29 pstall

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

do you believe god heals people who pray to him?

i've been contemplating putting this article up on facebook and trying to generate discussion but i have a gut feeling it's going to elicit a bunch of highly defensive responses the are knee-jerk reactions and don't result in anything resembling a constructive dialogue, so i'm sitting on it for now... the huddle is my cohort instead :)


Its not so much God healing as much as its faith. Many scriptures show where Jesus would say go your faith has healed you etc. Yes I believe that can happen and miracles can happen.
Why not do both? See and listen to the doctor AND pray.

#30 PhillyB

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

Its not so much God healing as much as its faith. Many scriptures show where Jesus would say go your faith has healed you etc. Yes I believe that can happen and miracles can happen.
Why not do both? See and listen to the doctor AND pray.


if faith heals then, why take medicine at all? it's not very faithful

#31 Mr. Scot

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:19 PM

if faith heals then, why take medicine at all? it's not very faithful


Because nothing in the text actually suggests that.

You could apply that kind of silly extension to pretty much anything if you wanted ("Why work when you could just pray for money?" etc) but you can't support it with actual text, especially not when you read the rest of the NT.

It's one thing to criticize what someone or something actually says. But if someone else twists what was said or written to mean something it was never intended to, then the person doing the twisting is the one to blame.

And don't give me "but the Bible lends itself to that" because any words can be twisted.

#32 pstall

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

If faith was 100% then why exist? What would be the point in having ups and downs and weaknesses?
Also there is the old Gods will dillyo. Praying isn't about wanting what you want but trying to be humble and connect with God. Listening to the doc and praying is wise. Even wiser is asking if its Gods will you can be healed. Again no harm in that.

Saying its not faithful is more legalistic than anything else.

Imagine how little we woul rely on God or grow if we always get what we prayed for.
That last blurb will make even more sense when you have a child. They will be perplexed when you say no and they will go but dad I said please.
Fatherhood is a very eye opening event on a host of things.

#33 PhillyB

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:37 PM

i don't think teleology is compatible with a god as an agent of love, despite philosophical contortions to that end. it no longer makes sense to me

#34 lightsout

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:26 PM

It's very simple: the bible says that he who prays sincerely will get what he prays for. Medical care costs money that not everybody has or wants to pay. God is apparently a free service of healing, according to the bible and the whole "healing the sick and needy". Pray = no money spent, doctor = money spent. These idiots follow this path of thinking, end up killing their kid because prayer doesn't fuging work. This was demonstrated TWICE to them, and GUARANTEED they still don't get it.

#35 pstall

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:34 PM

i don't think teleology is compatible with a god as an agent of love, despite philosophical contortions to that end. it no longer makes sense to me


And you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

#36 PhillyB

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:18 AM

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion.


my opinion is 100% open to being swayed if presented the proper evidence and accompanying argument.

i spent years answering these very questions with the same dogmatic responses that never actually addressed the questions, and having that emic perspective - that is, viewing a system or structure from the insider's point of view - i can speak to the gaps in thinking involved in answering these sorts of questions with the theology that is ultimately bound by certain elements of literal biblical translations.