Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

What did you see to support the claim our secondary improved over the course of last season?


93 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Simple question just as the thread title says. I don't personally think the secondary got much better since good QBs still played well, the competition just got worse. However, many people disagree so I would like to know what specifically happened to make people believe they got better.

.

.

.

Good QBs playing well are damm near impossible to stop. Hellz, in a passing league, you are lucky to stop anybody. So to you, there was no improvement.

 

 

Someone shows you stats that show improvement. Here is your response.

 

That isn't much improvement. Could argue they got worse.

 

Then you come back with this. Which contradicts your previous statement.

Not saying they got worse. And I'm asking about last season, not if they will be better this season.

 

So I made a joke about your fear of the past. And this is what I got for my trouble.

 

You're an idiot. People have one opinion. I disagree with that opinion so I am asking people to explain why they have that opinion. Since you can't do that kindly stay out of the thread.

 

 

The only person that may be able to allay your fears? You mom. Nothing anyone here has to say will give you enough insight to change your opinion. Futility at it's finest.

 

If you watched the games throughout the year. You saw what the rest of us saw. A bunch of kids doing their best.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Im not diving into the stats. I know at least our last 2 games the secondary played better. Espicially in the Falcons game. Our DB's were doing a good job of jarring the ball loose when the falcons receivers were trying to catch the ball.

 

What really pissed me off was Tony Gonzalez getting away with obvious PI calls all game. If not for that the DB's would have done even better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The last four games were the games that we dominated the scoreboard the most, which would lead to more passing by the opposing team. Those stats don't tell the whole story for either side of the argument, and stats rarely do.

Understandable, I agree about stats which is why I'm curious what other people use to support saying the secondary got better.

 

I'm not in any way going by stats. I'm just giving my impression of how the coverage looked, and how certain individual players played. I have no idea when the coverage stats improved or declined.

 

There are certain pass plays that can reveal if your secondary has good coverage or not. Certain players in our secondary were exposed technique-wise, and once that happened, teams kept attacking those players. Changes were made, and experience was gained, and the coverage on certain tell-tale pass plays improved. That's what made me feel that the coverage overall had improved. If you want to look at the exact plays I'm talking about then I need video of certain games. Actually I made a post a while back on Norman and what he was doing wrong in the KC game with some pics or a clip. The thing is that if I can see one of our secondary players making big mistakes, then ALL of our opposition can see it and will jump all over it and ride it until we fix it. We fixed it with benching and coaching imo. Stats-wise I have no idea which games were the best. 

That's fine, I wasn't looking for specific plays or anything. This is what I was asking for. I was curious whether people were using some stat, or just what they saw or something else and you provided that so thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

 

"Could argue they got worse" isn't the same as "they got worse" considering I wasn't making a definite statement either way but I wouldn't expect you to know that. Asking people why they feel a certain way about last season isn't fear. Again, since you are too stupid for the thread kindly stay out of it. And how the hell is giving up 90 less yards but 4 more TDs and having 1 less INT improvement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

2cmqetv.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

"Could argue they got worse" isn't the same as "they got worse" considering I wasn't making a definite statement either way but I wouldn't expect you to know that. Asking people why they feel a certain way about last season isn't fear. Again, since you are too stupid for the thread kindly stay out of it. And how the hell is giving up 90 less yards but 4 more TDs and having 1 less INT improvement?

.

.

.

.

.

You have refuted every opinion given. What is it you want to hear? We, the ones who saw improvement, did just that. Saw improvement. Ii is not a measurable stat you can refute. Take it for what it is worth.

 

Why you getting mad at me? I have tried to answer your question 3 times. And all 3 times you have attacked me. Poor poor me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

 

You telling me my mom can help my fears isn't answering the question. Not once have you provided any reason as to how the secondary improved so please tell me how you have you have tried to answer it three times. Only two people actually answered the question. One I disagreed with. The other I asked him another question, he answered it, and I thanked him because he provided what was asked. That isn't refuting every opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I think I'm understanding the philosophy they are going for. They already said, shutdown corners are very hard to find, and shutting down any receiver these days is next to impossible with the rules that favor offense. We've horded small, but "playmaker" corners, who may not shut anyone down, but with the pass rush we should have, will take advantage of bad throws. So while we may get gashed for some plays, a turnover here and there will theoretically balance it out.


Exactly!!!
It's always good to have a shutdown corner but a shutdown corner alone doesn't win you a championship. You need guys that can create turnovers.

-Oakland and Philly didn't win a SB with Nnamdi.
-Washington and Denver never won one with Bailey.
-NYJ never won it with Revis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post


 

 

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Now even changing the way they played they were still giving up lots of yards and TDs. Ryan had 300+ 2 TDs, Brees almost 400 4 TDs, Brady Quinn had his only TDs the entire season that game. Which goes to what I said in the OP, did they really get better or did they just appear that way because they faced QBs like Nick Foles and Matt Leinart. IMO they limited lesser QBs (excluding Quinn) but performed bad against the good ones. That happened the entire season, which supports them not really improving much.

 


Dockery didn't start against either Kansas City, Atlanta or New Orleans.  He started against Oakland and San Diego.  He did play against Atlanta and New Orleans though and was pretty decent.  

As for Thomas, he did start the last 4 games which included NO, Atlanta, SD, and Oakland. He did give up some big plays but that is to expected when he was starting the first 4 games of his career. 

I think you have to look at Atlanta and New Orleans in context. Against Atlanta we were beating them 23-7 at the end of the third quarter. They scored 13 points and many of their passing yards in junk time when we were preserving the lead and playing more zone keeping everything in front of us. Midway through the third quarter we had a 23-0 lead and had outgained them 356-88 yards.  

 

Against New Orleans it was a shoot out but again midway through the 4th quarter we had a 41-24 lead and Brees completed 2 short passes which the receivers ran a long way for TDs when we were playing cover 3 prevent defense. They should have been tackled sooner but it wasn't being burned repeatedly or poor coverage.  It was a breakdown but that is to be expected with guys who haven't worked  that  much together.  Still Brees got many of his yards very late when we had a big lead. If i was worried about anything it would be that we didn't finish them off and played soft at the end of both games which bit us in the butt way too often in 2012.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 


 

 

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Now even changing the way they played they were still giving up lots of yards and TDs. Ryan had 300+ 2 TDs, Brees almost 400 4 TDs, Brady Quinn had his only TDs the entire season that game. Which goes to what I said in the OP, did they really get better or did they just appear that way because they faced QBs like Nick Foles and Matt Leinart. IMO they limited lesser QBs (excluding Quinn) but performed bad against the good ones. That happened the entire season, which supports them not really improving much.

 

 


Dockery didn't start against either Kansas City, Atlanta or New Orleans.  He started against Oakland and San Diego.  He did play against Atlanta and New Orleans though and was pretty decent.  

As for Thomas, he did start the last 4 games which included NO, Atlanta, SD, and Oakland. He did give up some big plays but that is to expected when he was starting the first 4 games of his career. 

I think you have to look at Atlanta and New Orleans in context. Against Atlanta we were beating them 23-7 at the end of the third quarter. They scored 13 points and many of their passing yards in junk time when we were preserving the lead and playing more zone keeping everything in front of us. Midway through the third quarter we had a 23-0 lead and had outgained them 356-88 yards.  

 

Against New Orleans it was a shoot out but again midway through the 4th quarter we had a 41-24 lead and Brees completed 2 short passes which the receivers ran a long way for TDs when we were playing cover 3 prevent defense. They should have been tackled sooner but it wasn't being burned repeatedly or poor coverage.  It was a breakdown but that is to be expected with guys who haven't worked  that  much together.  Still Brees got many of his yards very late when we had a big lead. If i was worried about anything it would be that we didn't finish them off and played soft at the end of both games which bit us in the butt way too often in 2012.

 

 

 

 

Ok so you feel the coverage was better and the yardage/TDs came from late prevent/zone defense. Thanks, I appreciate the answer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Rivera always seemed to have jags in the secondary, but usually a good free safety. Which I'm hoping Godfrey can be

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

With the front 7 group we have, you can send 3 instead of 4 out there to cover and we will be better than we were last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites