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What did you see to support the claim our secondary improved over the course of last season?

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#31 chef17

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:02 PM

 

 

You telling me my mom can help my fears isn't answering the question. Not once have you provided any reason as to how the secondary improved so please tell me how you have you have tried to answer it three times. Only two people actually answered the question. One I disagreed with. The other I asked him another question, he answered it, and I thanked him because he provided what was asked. That isn't refuting every opinion.



#32 carolina-chuck

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:10 PM

I think I'm understanding the philosophy they are going for. They already said, shutdown corners are very hard to find, and shutting down any receiver these days is next to impossible with the rules that favor offense. We've horded small, but "playmaker" corners, who may not shut anyone down, but with the pass rush we should have, will take advantage of bad throws. So while we may get gashed for some plays, a turnover here and there will theoretically balance it out.


Exactly!!!
It's always good to have a shutdown corner but a shutdown corner alone doesn't win you a championship. You need guys that can create turnovers.

-Oakland and Philly didn't win a SB with Nnamdi.
-Washington and Denver never won one with Bailey.
-NYJ never won it with Revis

#33 panthers55

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:39 PM


 

 

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Now even changing the way they played they were still giving up lots of yards and TDs. Ryan had 300+ 2 TDs, Brees almost 400 4 TDs, Brady Quinn had his only TDs the entire season that game. Which goes to what I said in the OP, did they really get better or did they just appear that way because they faced QBs like Nick Foles and Matt Leinart. IMO they limited lesser QBs (excluding Quinn) but performed bad against the good ones. That happened the entire season, which supports them not really improving much.

 


Dockery didn't start against either Kansas City, Atlanta or New Orleans.  He started against Oakland and San Diego.  He did play against Atlanta and New Orleans though and was pretty decent.  

As for Thomas, he did start the last 4 games which included NO, Atlanta, SD, and Oakland. He did give up some big plays but that is to expected when he was starting the first 4 games of his career. 

I think you have to look at Atlanta and New Orleans in context. Against Atlanta we were beating them 23-7 at the end of the third quarter. They scored 13 points and many of their passing yards in junk time when we were preserving the lead and playing more zone keeping everything in front of us. Midway through the third quarter we had a 23-0 lead and had outgained them 356-88 yards.  

 

Against New Orleans it was a shoot out but again midway through the 4th quarter we had a 41-24 lead and Brees completed 2 short passes which the receivers ran a long way for TDs when we were playing cover 3 prevent defense. They should have been tackled sooner but it wasn't being burned repeatedly or poor coverage.  It was a breakdown but that is to be expected with guys who haven't worked  that  much together.  Still Brees got many of his yards very late when we had a big lead. If i was worried about anything it would be that we didn't finish them off and played soft at the end of both games which bit us in the butt way too often in 2012.

 

 



#34 chef17

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:00 PM

 


 

 

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. Now even changing the way they played they were still giving up lots of yards and TDs. Ryan had 300+ 2 TDs, Brees almost 400 4 TDs, Brady Quinn had his only TDs the entire season that game. Which goes to what I said in the OP, did they really get better or did they just appear that way because they faced QBs like Nick Foles and Matt Leinart. IMO they limited lesser QBs (excluding Quinn) but performed bad against the good ones. That happened the entire season, which supports them not really improving much.

 

 


Dockery didn't start against either Kansas City, Atlanta or New Orleans.  He started against Oakland and San Diego.  He did play against Atlanta and New Orleans though and was pretty decent.  

As for Thomas, he did start the last 4 games which included NO, Atlanta, SD, and Oakland. He did give up some big plays but that is to expected when he was starting the first 4 games of his career. 

I think you have to look at Atlanta and New Orleans in context. Against Atlanta we were beating them 23-7 at the end of the third quarter. They scored 13 points and many of their passing yards in junk time when we were preserving the lead and playing more zone keeping everything in front of us. Midway through the third quarter we had a 23-0 lead and had outgained them 356-88 yards.  

 

Against New Orleans it was a shoot out but again midway through the 4th quarter we had a 41-24 lead and Brees completed 2 short passes which the receivers ran a long way for TDs when we were playing cover 3 prevent defense. They should have been tackled sooner but it wasn't being burned repeatedly or poor coverage.  It was a breakdown but that is to be expected with guys who haven't worked  that  much together.  Still Brees got many of his yards very late when we had a big lead. If i was worried about anything it would be that we didn't finish them off and played soft at the end of both games which bit us in the butt way too often in 2012.

 

 

 

 

Ok so you feel the coverage was better and the yardage/TDs came from late prevent/zone defense. Thanks, I appreciate the answer.

 



#35 Kuech the Sneak

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

Rivera always seemed to have jags in the secondary, but usually a good free safety. Which I'm hoping Godfrey can be

#36 SIGCHI222

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:46 PM

With the front 7 group we have, you can send 3 instead of 4 out there to cover and we will be better than we were last year.



#37 koolkatluke

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:57 PM

I'm telling you guys get ready to really like Mike Mitchell at SS. He will have a Marlon McCree type impact on this team.



#38 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:01 AM

Rivera always seemed to have jags in the secondary, but usually a good free safety. Which I'm hoping Godfrey can be

looking at his last year in 2010.... both corners were first round picks, FS a 2nd.

Year before that they had 3 first round CBs on the roster, all drafted by SD

#39 jtm

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:00 AM

In our division with all the fire power, our secondary is never going to have good stats on paper. At the end of the day, total defense is all that matters. Last year we couldn't close games out because of Nak and we couldn't stop the run. Stopping the run was much improved in the second half if the year solely bc of Davis and Kuechly.

#40 rayzor

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

2cmqetv.jpg

end thread?

 

nah...who am i kidding. this will get  spun to show that it doesn't prove anything.



#41 BigBoss

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

First Half
9 TDs
1969 yards
6 INTs
67.15 completion %

Second Half
13 TDs
1879 yards
5 INTs
66.67 completion %

That isn't much improvement. Could argue they got worse.

 

Please, don't bring hardcore evidence to this!

 

 

 

 

Generally though, I agree with everybody else. Now that our front seven is the best in the game, we only really need two ppl playing coverage. Because two rookie DT's will have no adjustment and Dwan will have the same season as his best year yet. Thomas, Greg, Charles, Luke will have equal seasons to what they had last year also. The front seven will be the answer to everything!!

.

 

Just kidding not really. I do think we will have a great front 7 and we got some nice, needed dt's. but the problems on the back end will not magically disappear. We'll see if moore and Drayton are all that David wants them to be.
 



#42 rayzor

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:47 AM

In our division with all the fire power, our secondary is never going to have good stats on paper. At the end of the day, total defense is all that matters. Last year we couldn't close games out because of Nak and we couldn't stop the run. Stopping the run was much improved in the second half if the year solely bc of Davis and Kuechly.

this.

 

total defense is all that matters.

 

it got better. it got more used to the scheme. it will continue to get , esp. with the addition of star and short and the FAs brought in to help out the secondary. 



#43 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

I'm telling you guys get ready to really like Mike Mitchell at SS. He will have a Marlon McCree type impact on this team.


A lot of the Huddle is looking past this signing.

It should be paid more attention since Gettlemania never seemed to think twice about the Rambo's or 5'9 Shamarko Thomas as they feel the Safties are good to go!

Mitchell at least has had success as a safety in the NFL that Nakamura never sniffed.


More importantly the Madden Ratings are much better with Mitchell lol..

#44 koolkatluke

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

A lot of the Huddle is looking past this signing.

It should be paid more attention since Gettlemania never seemed to think twice about the Rambo's or 5'9 Shamarko Thomas as they feel the Safties are good to go!

Mitchell at least has had success as a safety in the NFL that Nakamura never sniffed.


More importantly the Madden Ratings are much better with Mitchell lol..

 

 

 

 

 

 



#45 SauceBoss

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:21 PM

I really feel that we are better there. We don't have a legitimate shutdown corner in Gamble anymore but we now have "playmakers".

I think thats an important part in a Rivera Defense. When you look back at his defenses in Chicago and SD, he never really had any shutdown corner but instead he had guys who can create turnovers. Athletic guys who can get INTs. I feel very comfortable with guys like DJ Moore and Florence added into the mix. With those guys in and a much improve DLine, I look to see more turnovers from the secondary.

 

Wow you're a homer. Let me know how Drayton Florence is a playmaker? Go back in time to this forum last fall and see how many people wanted Captain's head and how he and Norman couldn't cover squat. So all of a sudden this is rectified by some sort of poo magic? We do not have a starting quality corner on this team, and the safeties aren't much better. We may be able to stop the run now, but why run on this team when you can light them up all day? Just remember the last 2 mins of that Bears game last year and you will see that carry over this year. Here's to hoping we sign a veteran after June 1, a starting veteran.





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