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16-Year-Old Florida Honor Student Charged With Two Felonies For Doing A Science Experiment


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#31 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:28 PM

So now Zero Tolerance laws in school are a race thing....gotcha.

 

 

 

There are are dozens of studies that show this to be true. Google it.



#32 thatlookseasy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

So now Zero Tolerance laws in school are a race thing....gotcha.
 
Nice that some things never change in the TB.


No, but they are a stupid thing. You literally think the same punishment is appropriate, you just think that because this retarded rule is in place that we should throw common sense out the window just to make sure we follow the exact letter of the law.

If the rule is wrong, change it. Dont just be an asshole to everyone by rigidly enforcing it.

#33 Inimicus

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

No the rule should not be thrown out.

 

Explosives at school should be a one way ticket to the magistrates office and a permanent expulsion.

 

I dont give a damn how "harmless" the bomb was.  There should never be a scale for determining when it is and when it isn't ok for a student to construct and detonate a bomb at school.



#34 thatlookseasy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

No the rule should not be thrown out.
 
Explosives at school should be a one way ticket to the magistrates office and a permanent expulsion.
 
I dont give a damn how "harmless" the bomb was.  There should never be a scale for determining when it is and when it isn't ok for a student to construct and detonate a bomb at school.


A match meets all the definitions of a small bomb

Many things done in a chemistry class could be construed that way

#35 MadHatter

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:51 PM

A match meets all the definitions of a small bomb

Many things done in a chemistry class could be construed that way

 

If they are "done in a chemistry class" they are not part of the policy.

 

The rule was very specific and the punishment for breaking it was very specific.

 

She is not a child.  Our teenagers need to learn that there are real consequences to their actions.  That rules are not there just to take up space on a piece of paper.

 

This is something that I think too many of today's generation don't get.  They think that if they believe it is a stupd rule, they should not have to comply with it.

 

As I said....lobby the school boards to change the rule.  But, don't expect to not be punished exactly like the policy says if you don't adhere to it.



#36 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:56 PM

I dont give a damn how "harmless" the bomb was.  There should never be a scale for determining when it is and when it isn't ok for a student to construct and detonate a bomb at school.

 

It wasn't techinically a bomb. Bombs are weapons and usually don't include compressed gas reactions. Read the definitions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb

 

Bombs are weapons which can cause significant damage. Bombs require intent to injure. Bombs require explosive material.

 

The administration had to do some mental gymnastics to think this was anything close to a bomb in a layman's sense. This was a bomb as much as popping a paper bag is a bomb.

 

Which shows an overeager need to punish students. That didn't used to be a pricipal's job.



#37 thatlookseasy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:58 PM

She is not a child.  Our teenagers need to learn that there are real consequences to their actions.  That rules are not there just to take up space on a piece of paper.
 
This is something that I think too many of today's generation don't get.  They think that if they believe it is a stupd rule, they should not have to comply with it.
 
As I said....lobby the school boards to change the rule.  But, don't expect to not be punished exactly like the policy says if you don't adhere to it.


The problem is that these rules WONT EVEN BE ENFORCED. Like you said earlier, the charges will be dropped or reduced and she will be allowed back in school (way too much media around it now).

So what the fug was accomplished by pretending like they were going to enforce it?

#38 Inimicus

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:14 PM

It wasn't techinically a bomb. Bombs are weapons and usually don't include compressed gas reactions. Read the definitions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb

 

Bombs are weapons which can cause significant damage. Bombs require intent to injure. Bombs require explosive material.

 

The administration had to do some mental gymnastics to think this was anything close to a bomb in a layman's sense. This was a bomb as much as popping a paper bag is a bomb.

 

Which shows an overeager need to punish students. That didn't used to be a pricipal's job.

 

Oh good god...

 

I'm sorry I typed the word bomb out of laziness and didn't continue to use the term explosive device.  Techinically[sic] they classified it as a weapon and thats what she is being punished for. 

 

The semantic argument of what to call it has no bearing on the fact that the girl is getting what she deserves.



#39 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

The problem is that these rules WONT EVEN BE ENFORCED. Like you said earlier, the charges will be dropped or reduced and she will be allowed back in school (way too much media around it now).

So what the fug was accomplished by pretending like they were going to enforce it?

 

Criminal charges get reduced all the time through deals and plea bargains.

 

As for the expulsion it may well stand. Her lawyer says:

 

 

 

That recommendation of expulsion goes through this process to the school board; Polk County School Board has the ultimate decision-making authority.
 
If they find that the individual committed the offense, that individual is automatically expelled for one year.

 

 

 
 
It doesn't sound like they have leeway. Maybe they can determine the experiment did not constitute a bomb and she technically did not break the rule.


#40 MadHatter

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:24 PM

The problem is that these rules WONT EVEN BE ENFORCED. Like you said earlier, the charges will be dropped or reduced and she will be allowed back in school (way too much media around it now).

So what the fug was accomplished by pretending like they were going to enforce it?

Scare the piss out of her so that she understands the concept of personal accountability and that rules/laws are to be followed.



#41 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:29 PM

Oh good god...

 

I'm sorry I typed the word bomb out of laziness and didn't continue to use the term explosive device.  Techinically[sic] they classified it as a weapon and thats what she is being punished for. 

 

 

Well a weapon isn't a weapon unless it is a) used as such (a pencil isn't a weapon until you stab someone) B) designed specifically as a weapon. 

 

But that is moot to this discussion since that is not what she is being punished for

 

Go read the rule that is being enforced...it was "bomb or explosive device." Pretty hard to categorize this as an explosive device either. But they decided to.

 

http://en.wikipedia....xplosive_device

 

This is not a zero tolerance issue. I'm sure there are plenty of rules on the books that they could have chosen to enforce. That is where the judgment comes in. Mischief before school. General disruption. Whatever. But they chose to treat this as a "bomb", boot her out and call the cops.

 

Which again strikes me as going above and beyond reasonable measures to get a good student into the criminal justice system.

 

Seems sad to me.



#42 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:41 PM

Oh good god...

 

I'm sorry I typed the word bomb out of laziness and didn't continue to use the term explosive device.  Techinically[sic] they classified it as a weapon and thats what she is being punished for. 

 

The semantic argument of what to call it has no bearing on the fact that the girl is getting what she deserves.

 

Here is a writeup of why this is neither a weapon or destructive device under FL law if you have the time to read it.

 

http://www.dailykos....on-for-15-Years



#43 MadHatter

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

Well a weapon isn't a weapon unless it is a) used as such (a pencil isn't a weapon until you stab someone) B) designed specifically as a weapon. 

 

But that is moot to this discussion since that is not what she is being punished for

 

Go read the rule that is being enforced...it was "bomb or explosive device." Pretty hard to categorize this as an explosive device either. But they decided to.

 

http://en.wikipedia....xplosive_device

 

This is not a zero tolerance issue. I'm sure there are plenty of rules on the books that they could have chosen to enforce. That is where the judgment comes in. Mischief before school. General disruption. Whatever. But they chose to treat this as a "bomb", boot her out and call the cops.

 

Which again strikes me as going above and beyond reasonable measures to get a good student into the criminal justice system.

 

Seems sad to me.

Not sure how you can say it was not an explosive device.  Watch the video....it definitely is a device that explodes.

 

The school systems rules are VERY clear.....having an explosive device will result in immediate expulsion. 

 

Basically you are saying that they should not enforce the rule because..........you think they should not enfore the rule.



#44 MadHatter

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

Here is a writeup of why this is neither a weapon or destructive device under FL law if you have the time to read it.

 

http://www.dailykos....on-for-15-Years

Read the school systems by-laws.  It does not say the device has to be a weapon or a destructive device under FL law....so your link is irrelevant.

 

The rule is not about FL law....it is about a school policy that states "explosive device".  And the device she set off was an explosive device.



#45 Happy Panther

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:59 PM

Not sure how you can say it was not an explosive device.  Watch the video....it definitely is a device that explodes.

 

 

An explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases.

 

 

This "explosion" was the equivalent of  a menthos/pepsi experiment.




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