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#31 thatlookseasy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:41 AM

Duke is not in the same class as UK next year.  If UK gets Wiggins its pretty much over



#32 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

If UK gets Wiggins its pretty much over


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#33 4Corners

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

I'm not saying UNC wouldn't be really good...they would be. But Duke, UK, MSU, Louisville, and maybe Syracuse are going to be better teams. You can't just say "we have all this talent and Roy is the coach so we will be the best." You have to look historically at teams that Roy has won titles with. Those teams had the best PGs in the nation (Felton and Lawson), the best bigs in the nation (May, Hansbrough), the best shooters/scorer in the nation (Ellington and McCants). The 05 team had the most talented overall freshmen in the nation (Marvin Williams) so IMO he was a bonus. Then you look at the bench that Roy always has...Danny Green for the 09 team was the best 6th man in the nation. Jackie Manuel filled that role for the 05 team.

 

IMO what would make UNC a national title contender (maybe even moreso than getting Wiggins) would be if either Brice Johnson or Joel James became a dominant post scorer. IMO that isn't going to happen between their freshmen and sophomore years. They were both ridiculously raw players.

 

Roy isn't K. He isn't Pitino. He isn't Izzo. He isn't Boeheim. He and  Cal are both of the same mold. They HAVE to have the best players at every position for them to win titles. Roy isn't even close to that this coming year so until he proves me wrong or until Joel James or Brice Johnson become dominant post scorers...it's not happening for UNC with this team.

 

 

Roy Williams has 2 national titles in 10 years at UNC and has 7 final fours total. UNC has been to the ELITE 8 six of the past eight years and the two down years he has had at UNC has been after roster turnover from losing NBA players. 

 

K's 4 national championships at Duke speak for themselves but Roy is an elite coach and one of the top 3 coaches in all of college basketball. Pitino is obviously a great coach but his 2 national titles and 7 final fours are on par with Roy. Boeheim is another excellent coach but he's been at Cuse for 3 decades and has one national title. And his championship was won by a future NBA superstar and scoring champ. 

 

You comparing Roy to Calipari is insulting. He's a proven cheater. He is everything that's wrong with college basketball. Anybody can win when you have all star team and that's basically what Cal is going to  have next season. I think even Duke fans would have to admit what Roy did last season was remarkable.

 

I don't get how you're taking away from Roy's greatness by saying you have to have talent to win a championship. No sh1t sherlock. 



#34 4Corners

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

also, my top 3 coaches in NCAA basketball

 

1. K

2. Roy

3. Pitino 

 

Very close in fourth are Billy Donovan and Brad Stevens 



#35 4Corners

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:24 PM

Duke is not in the same class as UK next year.  If UK gets Wiggins its pretty much over

 

I'm a UNC fan obviously and don't care for Duke but they're going to be extremely over rated next season. I also get a chuckle about their fans yapping about some scrub transfer from Memphis. His 7 points a game last year ain't scarring NOBODY

 

Right now, they look like their going to be like UNC's team this past year except with a slightly better PG. 



#36 Falcons1stPanthers2nd

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:00 PM

I think Roy's credentials speak for themselves. One of the highest winning percentages of all time. and never lost a 1st round NCAA game.



#37 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:05 PM

If Wiggins goes to UNC it'll be another very talented top 5-8 UNC team and IMO nothing more. The experience and talent at Michigan State, Kentucky, Louisville, and Duke will put them in a class by themselves. Duke and UK are teams to beat next year...with MSU really on their heels. Heck...UNC could be 3rd in the conferences with CJ Fair announcing his return. Not a championship team for Roy though and IMO it's not how Roy wins. He typically wins by getting superstars to stay in college. His chance to win it all agin was with Barnes, Henson etc...he HAS to have the most talented player at every position to win. He'll have that at one position if he gets Wiggins but the rest of those guys are role players on a championship squad.

Just hard to win a title when two coaches like K and Cal both have possibly their most talented teams in last decade. I think the Jay Williams team is most talented team K had (this one rivals that IMO). This will clearly be most talented team Cal has ever had. Same COULD be said for Izzo's team this year.

 

What experience does Duke, Kentucky, and Louisville have. All the teams that you mentioned lost more than Carolina lost. In my opinion, the only classes out of the four you mentioned that have a better recruiting class than UNC are UK and Duke and Duke's depends on if Wiggins commits to UNC or not. I have a feeling that you haven't seen Wiggins play or are underestimating his ability. The kid is just flat out dominant, he has dominated everyone he has ever played and I don't expect it to be any different at the college level.

 

A Carolina team with Wiggins, Hairston, Paige, Hicks and McAdoo with great role players in Kennedy Meeks, Brice Johnson, Nate Britt, and Leslie McDonald accompanied by great depth players in Desmond Hubert, Joel James, J.P. Tokoto, Luke Davis, and Jackson Simmons is a top five team and a contender for the NCAA Championship; it's simple as that.



#38 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 04:08 PM

I'd also hold out on declaring UK National Champions until you actually see how all of these guys gel together. For all we know, all of these "superstars" don't mesh together and UK just ends up being a very good top 15 team that can't get over the hump because they lack serious experience.

 

 



#39 unicar15

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 06:40 PM

What experience does Duke, Kentucky, and Louisville have. All the teams that you mentioned lost more than Carolina lost. In my opinion, the only classes out of the four you mentioned that have a better recruiting class than UNC are UK and Duke and Duke's depends on if Wiggins commits to UNC or not. I have a feeling that you haven't seen Wiggins play or are underestimating his ability. The kid is just flat out dominant, he has dominated everyone he has ever played and I don't expect it to be any different at the college level.

 

A Carolina team with Wiggins, Hairston, Paige, Hicks and McAdoo with great role players in Kennedy Meeks, Brice Johnson, Nate Britt, and Leslie McDonald accompanied by great depth players in Desmond Hubert, Joel James, J.P. Tokoto, Luke Davis, and Jackson Simmons is a top five team and a contender for the NCAA Championship; it's simple as that.

 

The only people who think Roy is one of the top 3 coaches in America are a minority of Carolina fans. Even most UNC fans will acknowledge that Roy has shown a lack of ability to have great teams unless he has the best talent. Is he a great recruiter? Yes. Then he turns that into winning...just like John Calipari. Does he do it with 1 and dones? No. But he does it with loads of guys who are top 25 top 35 talents and then somehow convinces them to stay...while other coaches around the country consistently lose lesser talents to the NBA year after year. Roy then keeps them around until they are Juniors...and it turns into a national title because if you have a junior-laden team full of guys that were at one point top 10 in their class, it's hard to beat. He's essentially the only coach that can consistently do that so I'll give him that credit. He's a very good coach...he's not in the top 5 though. Top 5 coaches don't go to the NIT...Ever.

 

When I was speaking to experience...I'm not saying UNC doesn't have experience (if I said that it's not what I meant). What I mean is that UNC's experience isn't as good as Duke's, MSUs etc. I don't think that JMM, Paige, and Hairston are even in the same class as a K-coached Suliamon, Hood, Jefferson, Thornton, Dawkins...even Parker plays well beyond his years. I'll admit K is the difference...but it's a big difference. BTW...Kennedy Meeks isn't going to see the floor next year.

 

Just for kicks here are my top 10 coaches:

1. K

2. Izzo

3. Pitino

4. Donovan

5. Boeheim

6. Self

7. Stevens

8. Roy

9. Bo Ryan

10. Cal

 

Roy will never be higher on that list unless he pulls off a national title with a team...like next year's team. If he won next year then he'd jump into that 2-3 conversation. But it's not going to happen.



#40 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

The only people who think Roy is one of the top 3 coaches in America are a minority of Carolina fans. Even most UNC fans will acknowledge that Roy has shown a lack of ability to have great teams unless he has the best talent. Is he a great recruiter? Yes. Then he turns that into winning...just like John Calipari. Does he do it with 1 and dones? No. But he does it with loads of guys who are top 25 top 35 talents and then somehow convinces them to stay...while other coaches around the country consistently lose lesser talents to the NBA year after year. Roy then keeps them around until they are Juniors...and it turns into a national title because if you have a junior-laden team full of guys that were at one point top 10 in their class, it's hard to beat. He's essentially the only coach that can consistently do that so I'll give him that credit. He's a very good coach...he's not in the top 5 though. Top 5 coaches don't go to the NIT...Ever.

 

When I was speaking to experience...I'm not saying UNC doesn't have experience (if I said that it's not what I meant). What I mean is that UNC's experience isn't as good as Duke's, MSUs etc. I don't think that JMM, Paige, and Hairston are even in the same class as a K-coached Suliamon, Hood, Jefferson, Thornton, Dawkins...even Parker plays well beyond his years. I'll admit K is the difference...but it's a big difference. BTW...Kennedy Meeks isn't going to see the floor next year.

 

Just for kicks here are my top 10 coaches:

1. K

2. Izzo

3. Pitino

4. Donovan

5. Boeheim

6. Self

7. Stevens

8. Roy

9. Bo Ryan

10. Cal

 

Roy will never be higher on that list unless he pulls off a national title with a team...like next year's team. If he won next year then he'd jump into that 2-3 conversation. But it's not going to happen.

 

Talk about changing the topic, no where did I mention Roy in my first post and all of a sudden this entire conversation turns to him... Any who back on topic.

 

You can twist it anyway you want, but Duke does not have an experienced team next year; take the following into account

 

Six (McAdoo, Hairston, McDonald, Davis, Simmons, Hubert) of Carolina's starters/role players/depth players are upper classmen, four are sophomores who are coming off of their first taste of college basketball (Paige, Johnson, James, Tokoto) and three are unproven (Meeks, Britt, Hicks)

 

As where you mentioned

 

Suliamon- star

Parker- hasn't played a college game yet

Hood - didn't play last year

Dawkins- didn't play last year

Thornton- averaged 3 points in 22 minutes per game...

Jefferson - avgeraged 4 points in 12 minutes per game...

 

For the most part, Duke is banking on guys that didn't play much, haven't played a college game at all, or didn't play at all last year... not exactly experience...

 

 

 




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