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#46 Mvp2014

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:04 PM

I think Roy's credentials speak for themselves. One of the highest winning percentages of all time. and never lost a 1st round NCAA game.

When was the last time Coach K had to go to the NIT?? : D

#47 Munch4455

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:28 AM

The only people who think Roy is one of the top 3 coaches in America are a minority of Carolina fans. Even most UNC fans will acknowledge that Roy has shown a lack of ability to have great teams unless he has the best talent. Is he a great recruiter? Yes. Then he turns that into winning...just like John Calipari. Does he do it with 1 and dones? No. But he does it with loads of guys who are top 25 top 35 talents and then somehow convinces them to stay...while other coaches around the country consistently lose lesser talents to the NBA year after year. Roy then keeps them around until they are Juniors...and it turns into a national title because if you have a junior-laden team full of guys that were at one point top 10 in their class, it's hard to beat. He's essentially the only coach that can consistently do that so I'll give him that credit. He's a very good coach...he's not in the top 5 though. Top 5 coaches don't go to the NIT...Ever.

 

When I was speaking to experience...I'm not saying UNC doesn't have experience (if I said that it's not what I meant). What I mean is that UNC's experience isn't as good as Duke's, MSUs etc. I don't think that JMM, Paige, and Hairston are even in the same class as a K-coached Suliamon, Hood, Jefferson, Thornton, Dawkins...even Parker plays well beyond his years. I'll admit K is the difference...but it's a big difference. BTW...Kennedy Meeks isn't going to see the floor next year.

 

Just for kicks here are my top 10 coaches:

1. K

2. Izzo

3. Pitino

4. Donovan

5. Boeheim

6. Self

7. Stevens

8. Roy

9. Bo Ryan

10. Cal

 

Roy will never be higher on that list unless he pulls off a national title with a team...like next year's team. If he won next year then he'd jump into that 2-3 conversation. But it's not going to happen.

 

Whats hilarious is how I have had UNC fans tell me that K is a douchebag bc he allegedly tries to get players to stay, continually quoting "Dean Smith forced MJ to go pro."  How many players has K kept for longer than they need to stay in school?  Now Roy Williams has cost McAdoo(Top 5 pick last year, likely would be mid 20's this year), Barnes(Top 3 after his freshman year 7th last year), Henson(Top 10 Freshman year, 14 Junior year), Davis(Top 5 freshman year, 13th as a soph)  off the top of my head, millions of dollars for getting them to stay.  You said it perfectly, its hard not to win a championship when you sacrifice the future of your players for the sake of the University.  I'm glad K doesn't screw his own players by blowing smoke up their ass telling them they need another year to develop.
 



#48 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:52 AM

Whats hilarious is how I have had UNC fans tell me that K is a douchebag bc he allegedly tries to get players to stay, continually quoting "Dean Smith forced MJ to go pro."  How many players has K kept for longer than they need to stay in school?  Now Roy Williams has cost McAdoo(Top 5 pick last year, likely would be mid 20's this year), Barnes(Top 3 after his freshman year 7th last year), Henson(Top 10 Freshman year, 14 Junior year), Davis(Top 5 freshman year, 13th as a soph)  off the top of my head, millions of dollars for getting them to stay.  You said it perfectly, its hard not to win a championship when you sacrifice the future of your players for the sake of the University.  I'm glad K doesn't screw his own players by blowing smoke up their ass telling them they need another year to develop.
 

 

What's funny is a lot of times they do need to develop... I love how you are the all knowing sports genius around these parts. I'm pretty sure K not only screwed himself but he screwed Rivers when he let that young man walk...



#49 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:54 AM

Any who, why are Duke Fans in this thread; can't you go make a Jabari Parker thread or something... Last time I checked the thread title was Wiggins and once again, the last time I checked Wiggins wasn't considering Duke...



#50 Munch4455

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:13 AM

What's funny is a lot of times they do need to develop... I love how you are the all knowing sports genius around these parts. I'm pretty sure K not only screwed himself but he screwed Rivers when he let that young man walk...

 

Does Austin Rivers really strike you as someone who would listen to anyones advice but his own or maybe his fathers?  Kid was gonna do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.  One of the large reasons I am glad he left.  I am greatful for everything he did for us, and happy he came to Duke, but I wasn't upset when he left. 

 

Time to develop into what?  None of them made a vast improvement over their time at UNC, and none of them are playing spectacularly in the NBA.  Henson, Barnes and Davis have been solid in the NBA, but none of been close to what they projected to be out of high school.  At the end of the day, they lost millions of guaranteed dollars by staying in school.  If they were to go out and have a career ending injury(or if they had in school), god forbid, then I'm sure they would wish that they had that money.  The big difference between K and Roy is that K goes out and tries to get 4 year guys, to coach them up, maybe give them a shot in the NBA, and when he gets one and dones he doesn't try to keep them back in school.  Roy goes out and recruits one and dones and tries to make them stay for longer than they should, thus costing them millions and potentially their careers.  Like I said before, its great when a coach will do whatever he can for the sake of his team, but not when it is at the cost of risking a talented young player's future career and financial stability.



#51 Munch4455

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:14 AM

Any who, why are Duke Fans in this thread; can't you go make a Jabari Parker thread or something... Last time I checked the thread title was Wiggins and once again, the last time I checked Wiggins wasn't considering Duke...

 

Carolina fans feel the need to do the same with ours, why are we villians for doing it to you?
 



#52 Falcons1stPanthers2nd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:32 AM

Carolina fans feel the need to do the same with ours, why are we villians for doing it to you?
 

Well....I don't cause i couldn't give 2 shits about Duke recruiting another ugly white 3 point shooter



#53 Falcons1stPanthers2nd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 05:33 AM

When was the last time Coach K had to go to the NIT?? : D

It's better than losing to Lehigh. When's the last time K lost most of his team to the NBA?



#54 bigcatdaddy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:58 AM

It's better than losing to Lehigh. When's the last time K lost most of his team to the NBA?


So losing in the NIT is better then losing in the NCAA tourney? Carolina logic.

#55 Falcons1stPanthers2nd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:03 AM

So losing in the NIT is better then losing in the NCAA tourney? Carolina logic.

Embarrassed as a 2 seed to a 15 seed or going to the NIT after losing 95% of the entire team after winning a title. Context matters.



#56 bigcatdaddy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:51 AM

Embarrassed as a 2 seed to a 15 seed or going to the NIT after losing 95% of the entire team after winning a title. Context matters.


So Duke is losing 68% of their offense, 3 starters plus 55% of our rebounding so is it okay for Duke to be an NIT team next year? Hell no, Duke and unc should never be okay with not making the NCAA tourney.

#57 Falcons1stPanthers2nd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:03 AM

So Duke is losing 68% of their offense, 3 starters plus 55% of our rebounding so is it okay for Duke to be an NIT team next year? Hell no, Duke and unc should never be okay with not making the NCAA tourney.

Did i say i was okay with it? Quit making poo up. Also 68<95. 95 is virtually replacing the entire starting lineup+ the bench. 



#58 thatlookseasy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

Whats hilarious is how I have had UNC fans tell me that K is a douchebag bc he allegedly tries to get players to stay, continually quoting "Dean Smith forced MJ to go pro."  How many players has K kept for longer than they need to stay in school?  Now Roy Williams has cost McAdoo(Top 5 pick last year, likely would be mid 20's this year), Barnes(Top 3 after his freshman year 7th last year), Henson(Top 10 Freshman year, 14 Junior year), Davis(Top 5 freshman year, 13th as a soph)  off the top of my head, millions of dollars for getting them to stay.  You said it perfectly, its hard not to win a championship when you sacrifice the future of your players for the sake of the University.  I'm glad K doesn't screw his own players by blowing smoke up their ass telling them they need another year to develop.
 

 

You're examples are mostly pure speculation.  Mcadoo would not have been a top 5 pick, those were just rumors from months before the draft, Henson was not even close to a top 10 pick after his freshman year (that one is just hilariously wrong), and Ed Davis is also just predraft speculation.  Barnes I will give you, he probably should have gone.

 

The idea that Roy lies to his players to get them to stay is laughably false.  He usually does a great job of getting them accurate information on their pro prospects to make an informed decision, he just recruits players who are willing to stay 2 or 3 seasons if they have a shot at a title.
 



#59 bigcatdaddy

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:07 AM

Did i say i was okay with it? Quit making poo up. Also 68<95. 95 is virtually replacing the entire starting lineup+ the bench.


Actually you lost 76% of your scoring from 09-10 not 95%. Losing in the NCAA tourney even in the first round is nowhere close to being as embarrassing as having to play in the NIT no matter the circumstances.

#60 Falcons1stPanthers2nd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:11 PM

Actually you lost 76% of your scoring from 09-10 not 95%. Losing in the NCAA tourney even in the first round is nowhere close to being as embarrassing as having to play in the NIT no matter the circumstances.

Losing 4 all ACC players. Point remains. the 95 is probably closer to the 05 title year turnover. I guess i see losing as a 2 seed in the first round and making the NIT both as equally embarrassing. How's this for embarrassing? You could sweep us for 10 years and you'd still be behind in the series.




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