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Trade Scenario?


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#1 carolina-chuck

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 11:00 PM

I saw a "trade scenario" on "BR" that was pretty intriguing. Yes, "BR".

It was a mock draft with trades. This dude has us trading down with the Minnesota Timberwolves.

The deal:

Minnesota Timberwolves receive: No. 2 pick overall (Ben McLemore), Tyrus Thomas

Charlotte Bobcats receive: Derrick Williams, Greg Stiemsma, No. 9 pick overall

At the No.9 spot, we take Alex Len.


I thought the Alex Len pick was a real good one, but I would be pretty upset in this scenario unless something else happens. Derrick Williams hasn't lived up to the hype of being the No.2 overall pick in 2011. Also, we already have MKG at the SF position. Williams is a guy who's many wonders if he should be a 3 or 4. IMO, unless Derrick Williams is capable of moving to the 2 (SG) I don't know about this one. I hate the Stiemsma deal. He will definitely give us some size in the paint, but there's nothing to love. If Stiemsma was replaced by "Nikola Pekovic" (RFA), it would be a helluva deal. There have been talks wondering what Minnesota should do with Pekovic. Some wonders if Minnesota should have that much money tie up to two "BIGS" (Pek/Love) if they decides to extend Pek especially when Rubio's deal is lurking in the corner. Minny may just decide to throw him in the conversation. If Cho could pull this deal that involves Pekovic, it would be a damn good move.

PG: Kemba, Sessions
SG: Derrick Williams
SF: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Taylor
PF: Pekovic, Biyombo
C : Alex Len, Haywood


What yall think???

#2 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:04 AM

I personally don't think Williams is fast enough to play the two and there is no way they would throw two solid players like Pek and Williams in that trade only getting Thomas and the 2nd pick (in a weak draft), but with that said; here is what I would say about the trade.

 

I would think, long, and hard about this trade... I like Williams because he is super athletic, but there are some if's that would keep me from agreeing to this trade.

 

Williams shoots a solid 43% from the field, but needs a little work on the defensive end and definitely needs to improve his rebounding.

 

The problem with this trade is that Williams plays a similar game to Byron Mullens and Josh McRoberts but has enough athleticism to play the small forward position which I think is more suited for him.

 

So regarding this trade, here are the if's I have.

 

If Williams agrees to be MKG's back-up then make the trade

If the Wolves take Stiemsma out of the trade and replace him with Ridnour make the trade (We don't need any more sub-par centers)

If Noel is there for the Cats to take, the trade will not be made

 

If the three things above are agreed upon then make the trade

 

If the Cats are not in position to draft Noel then they could make this trade and legitimately lock down the small forward position for years to come...

 

Picture something like this (based on the trade, drafting Len, and excluding free agency)

 

PG: Kemba Walker, Ramon Sessions, Luke Ridnour

SG: ?, ?, Jeff Taylor

SF: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Derrick Williams, Jeff Adrien

PF: Bismack Biyombo, ?, ?

C: ?, Alex Len, Brendan Haywood

 

Now you fill out the rest of the roster with our free agents and other teams free agents.

 

By the way, our free agents are...

 

PG: Jannero Pargo

SG: Gerald Henderson (RFA), Ben Gordon (Player Option), Reggie Williams

SF: None

PF: Josh McRoberts, Byron Mullens

C: DeSagana Diop



#3 chknwing

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:11 AM

Not trading away #2, which will be a starter, for backups and a lower pick.  Charlotte will draft Anthony Bennett and bring in a center from free agency. Adding those 2 pieces will convert this team into something special.



#4 GotSwag?

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:20 AM

Yeah, I dont like this trade at all.  I would just stick with #2 and take Bennett.  Keep building for the future.  It would be great to get rid of Thomas' contract, but at this point, im stuck on Bennett.  Hes goign to be an all star for many years IMO.



#5 thatlookseasy

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:19 AM

Would love this trade.  I think Derrick Williams has been completely misused by Minny and that if you play him as a stretch PF he will be much better.  He is 6'9 250, he should not be playing big minutes at the 2 or 3



#6 Sapper

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:12 AM

Don't lose hope in us landing #1 overall.

 

It is definitely a weak draft but serious offers will be made if we win the lottery tomorrow.



#7 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:13 AM

Would love this trade. I think Derrick Williams has been completely misused by Minny and that if you play him as a stretch PF he will be much better. He is 6'9 250, he should not be playing big minutes at the 2 or 3


No disrespect, but he is 6'8/240 and if you think he should be playing the PF position I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you haven't seen him play much.

Williams lacks a post game (similar to Mullens) and makes his living ideally from 15 feet and out (unless he finds a lane to drive)

His ideal position is at the small forward spot.

#8 ZB1224

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:43 AM

Would love this trade.  I think Derrick Williams has been completely misused by Minny and that if you play him as a stretch PF he will be much better.  He is 6'9 250, he should not be playing big minutes at the 2 or 3

 

 

No disrespect, but he is 6'8/240 and if you think he should be playing the PF position I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you haven't seen him play much.

Williams lacks a post game (similar to Mullens) and makes his living ideally from 15 feet and out (unless he finds a lane to drive)

His ideal position is at the small forward spot.

 

I usually find myself agreeing with ya, CP8789, but this time I am going to have to disagree and side with thatlookseasy. 

 

Derrick Williams is a bit of a tweener, but he doesn't have the skills to be able to play the 3 consistently. He is definitely more effective at the 4 until he develops his handle a bit more. You can ask any T-Wolves fan and they'll tell you that he's definitely best at the 4. Post All Star break, he was the starting PF and got solid minutes at about 30 mpg. He put up 15 ppg, and 6.3 rpg. He also shot about 45% from the field and 34% from three. When Derrick Williams was given 30-39 minutes (an average of 35) he put up 19 ppg and 8 rpg. I watched a good amount of T-Wolves games this past season (big fan of Rubio), and I noticed that in the 2nd half he started coming into his own. He developed a nice pick and pop game, but also has the athleticism to get to the rim and throw it down.

 

He hasn't exactly lived up to his #2 spot, but he has shown flashes of promise, and he would definitely be a better option than the smaller 6-7 Anthony Bennett, and a better option than the super passive, Ben McLemore (when we should be able to resign Hendo for a decent contract). Obviously if we get the #1 pick then we keep it and take Noel (even though I feel like Noel's ceiling is that of a Marcus Camby -- which isn't horrible, but probably not deserving of the #1 pick). If we do get the #2 pick or lower then I would definitely consider trading it for Derrick Williams and their 1st rounder. I'd also like to see if they'd throw in their 2nd round pick too. 



#9 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

Not trading away #2, which will be a starter, for backups and a lower pick.  Charlotte will draft Anthony Bennett and bring in a center from free agency. Adding those 2 pieces will convert this team into something special.

 

Huh?  Special in a mildly retarded way? Even if they brought in a center on the level of Shaq in his prime, the Bobcats arguably still wouldn't be special.

 

I mean really, as an outside observer/not a biased fan, the Bobcats have 2 decent players right now.  Kemba and MKG.  And neither will ever even be the 2nd best guy on a championship team IMO. If you think bringing in an undersized PF and an overpaid FA center transforms this team into special, you must think the 6th seed in the playoffs and on the train to no where is special. 



#10 carolina-chuck

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:20 PM

Yeah, I dont like this trade at all. I would just stick with #2 and take Bennett. Keep building for the future. It would be great to get rid of Thomas' contract, but at this point, im stuck on Bennett. Hes goign to be an all star for many years IMO.


That's nice to see Bennett's name being considered for the no.2 spot if we lands there. I saw a mock with that scenario and I was a little shocked. I'm on the McLemore wagon but I want the best guy. My knock on Bennett is his size (6'7). Is Bennett's stock rising??

#11 thatlookseasy

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

No disrespect, but he is 6'8/240 and if you think he should be playing the PF position I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you haven't seen him play much.

Williams lacks a post game (similar to Mullens) and makes his living ideally from 15 feet and out (unless he finds a lane to drive)

His ideal position is at the small forward spot.

 

6'9 in NBA terms (measured 6'8.75 in shoes at combine).  Its just the way the NBA is going, you can give up a little height at the 4 especially if you can add an extra shooter (because the offense is so much more open).  Rockets played a small 4 most of the season, as did some other teams like the Knicks.

 

Playing PF is not just for guys like Lebron and Melo.  Guys like Josh Smith, Thad Young, Luol Deng, Kenny Faried, Jeff Green, Antawn Jamison are all around his height and none play like a traditional PF

 

Hell even Harrison Barnes looked good when he got some time at PF in the playoffs



#12 ZB1224

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:25 PM

6'9 in NBA terms (measured 6'8.75 in shoes at combine).  Its just the way the NBA is going, you can give up a little height at the 4 especially if you can add an extra shooter (because the offense is so much more open).  Rockets played a small 4 most of the season, as did some other teams like the Knicks.

 

Playing PF is not just for guys like Lebron and Melo.  Guys like Josh Smith, Thad Young, Luol Deng, Kenny Faried, Jeff Green, Antawn Jamison are all around his height and none play like a traditional PF

 

Hell even Harrison Barnes looked good when he got some time at PF in the playoffs

 

Agreed. The traditional 4 is a thing of the past. I think that if we did this scenario we'd be a much better team than if we didn't do it. 

 

Kemba Walker

Gerald Henderson

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

Derrick Williams

Bismack Biyombo 

 

That is a VERY athletic lineup that would be fun to watch develop. Kemba is already EASILY a top 15 PG, Hendo is EASILY a top 10 SG, MKG should develop into a stud all around player, Biz is a huge question mark, but he has a lot of potential still yet, and lastly Derrick Williams was projected to be an All-Star caliber player coming out of the draft. That is a starting lineup of a lot of young players with high potential. If we were able to draft Alex Len with the T-Wolves pick then that would give us a young C with good fundamentals and post presence (who happens to still be pretty athletic) top rotate in with Biz. 

 

The more I think about this trade the more I would be super thrilled to do it. Is Ben McLemore minus Gerald Henderson really going to improve us? I really don't think so. I'm not saying that McLemore won't be a good player, because he is hyper athletic and can shoot lights out, which all screams potential. However, I'm a bit worried about his ability to create shots, his dribbling skills, his height, and his defense. I really don't think that he will be a much better pro than Hendo currently is. Hendo, when aggressive is closer to #5 than #10 for top 10 SG's as well. I'm not really overrated him either tbh. If you look at a lot of the advanced metrics, they say that he is a top 10 SG offensively, and one of the best one on one defenders in the NBA. I'm not delusional and saying that he'll ever be an All-Star, because I don't think that he will be. However, he is solid for now, and would be a great sixth man to have in the future when we have Wiggins starting at the 2 :)

 

Man, I really hope this is on the table for Cho to consider   



#13 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:36 PM

I don't know, I guess I don't see Williams as the superstar we're looking for in the post. He just doesn't seem to have the post game to me, I'd rather take our chances trying to lure AL or Millsap away from Utah.

I'm also not a fan of Bennett because he is the ultimate tweeter 6'8/240 (small forwards body with a power forward play style). I just don't see him being able to play the four spot very effectively. On top of that, Bennett hasn't been the healthiest kid (dating back to his HS days, where he missed most of his junior year). Bennett even suffered a rotator cuff injury and had surgery at the end of this year, so hopefully that doesn't affect his shooting mechanic's.

As you guys can tell, I'm more of a traditional line-up type of guy (very similar to what Memphis runs).

I'm not a huge fan of tweeners unless they are clear cut superstars. That's why I would ultimately not make the trade unless Williams agrees to split time at the three spot with MKG.

Ultimately, I'd rather have Noel though.

#14 carolina-chuck

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:17 PM

I'd just rather take McLemore

#15 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

McLemore scares the hell out of me.

 

He has all the tools to be a good basketball player, maybe even a 20ppg player; but he damn near disappeared on the biggest stage (NCAA Tournament).

 

 




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