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Rivera: Panthers' new offense will be more of a collaberative effort


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i think its a smart way to go, but esp. when you hav  limited ability.

 

i'm just not sure how this collaberative thing will work on game day. conference call prior to each play?

 

lol. Maybe i was just reading into the article, but Rivera was pretty much saying Shula is the complete opposite of Chud. It almost seemed like he was slamming Chud in the article to me.

 

Everyone's opinion will be taken into considerations including Cam, which i think will be best for everybody. I want to see Cam take the reigns of the offense more and more as the years go by.

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If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

 

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

 

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?

he wasn't hired because he was the most talented prospect. he was hired because he was here already and because he would use the playbook that was here. you know....the whole continuity thing.

 

best thing he can do for himself and the team is get himself out of the way and do his best to not leave his stamp on things....which is what rivera is trying to avoid, apparently. can't say i blame him.

 

nice try on his behalf to say he was impressed with how aggressive shula was. he might be aggressive,  but i've  known plenty of aggressive people who couldn't make good and/or quick decisions so that didn't exactly win me over.

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I would guess that the collaborative approach will have more to do with game-planning than calling plays.  That's not a bad thing either.

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If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

 

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

 

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?

.

 

Seems to me it may be more about how Chud didn't let others contribute as much as Rivera would have liked instead of a knock on Shula

 

 

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Something about ball control + Cam Newton doesn't mesh.

Do we really want ball control to be our signature with a dynamic QB like Cam? Sure, situationally it is a good thing....but ball control offenses usually involve trying to win with weak QB play.

I am glad you pointed this out because I did not want to leave the impression that I am suggesting Henning/Davidson.  I simply think Cam will be better when the D has to address the run game.  We were terrible running the ball last year, and we saw mostly nickel defenses.  I simply want the offense to establish the run more.  I think the vertical passing game opens up, Cam would be unstoppable if the defense was forced to stop other players.  

 

I also agree with Razor.  How the heck will the committee system work?  i tried that once with girlfriends in college and it did not bode well for me.

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lol. Maybe i was just reading into the article, but Rivera was pretty much saying Shula is the complete opposite of Chud. It almost seemed like he was slamming Chud in the article to me.

 

Everyone's opinion will be taken into considerations including Cam, which i think will be best for everybody. I want to see Cam take the reigns of the offense more and more as the years go by.

it could be both.

 

chud was all about chud making chud look good.

 

i think shula is more of a team player so thats good...i just dont think hes cut out for this role.

 

fwiw, i think he'd be a better HC than OC, and thats not me saying he'd suck at both, just less at HC. i think he would be a better macro-manager than micro-manager. i just don't think he should be running the offense because i don't think that is his strength. 

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Extending Zod's comment--

Rivera said the same thing about McDermott when he hired him, and think it hurt McDermott's credibility.  This is worse because Rivera was an establshed DC--who are your offensive minds that are going to form this committee?  How in the hell do you choose Shula over established NFL Offensive coordinators and then go public stating that he will not be the man in charge of the offense?  I have to think that he is referring to alterations in the system because they like some aspects of Chud's system.  However, Rivera has a lot to learn about building up his coordinators.  We already know that the head coach has the final decisions on offense and defense, so why say it?  Will Shula wait for a smiley face or gold star when he makes a modification or calls a play? 

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Shula will call plays and design the game plan.  He will simply let the players and other coaches to have more input.  Seems like a win-win for everyone.  Funny how some people put a negative spin on everything about Shula. Then again if you only look for the negative you will usually find what you are looking for.

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What I got from the article:

 

 

"we could really be a really good team.”

 

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Shula will call plays and design the game plan.  He will simply let the players and other coaches to have more input.  Seems like a win-win for everyone.  Funny how some people put a negative spin on everything about Shula. Then again if you only look for the negative you will usually find what you are looking for.

I see this a negative on Rivera.  What you describe happens on various levels--there are not too many coordinators who do not seek input from everyone involved.  So, why go public and say this?  I think it hurts Shula's credibility for no reason.  Shula has a fairly experienced offensive staff and I am sure he will lean on them.

 

I want Shula to be getting endorsements and votes of confidence.  Although I do not see this as a deliberate attempt to discredit Shula, there is no need to make this statement, in my opinion.

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Per usual way too much reading into things and jumping to conclusions.

"I'm not a Negative Nancy, I'm just realistic. Stop persecuting me!"

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Extending Zod's comment--

Rivera said the same thing about McDermott when he hired him, and think it hurt McDermott's credibility.  This is worse because Rivera was an establshed DC--who are your offensive minds that are going to form this committee?  How in the hell do you choose Shula over established NFL Offensive coordinators and then go public stating that he will not be the man in charge of the offense?  I have to think that he is referring to alterations in the system because they like some aspects of Chud's system.  However, Rivera has a lot to learn about building up his coordinators.  We already know that the head coach has the final decisions on offense and defense, so why say it?  Will Shula wait for a smiley face or gold star when he makes a modification or calls a play? 

 

So how is it working out for McDermott.  We were a top 10 defense after being closer to the mid twenties when he took over.  Seems the players and assistant coaches like what he did.  I suspect it will be the same with Shula.  His assistants and the players are behind him which is all the credibility he needs.  If fans don't like him, or he gets criticized in the media,  who really cares. as long as the staff and players are with him, the rest will work itself out when we move the ball and score.

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Extending Zod's comment--

Rivera said the same thing about McDermott when he hired him, and think it hurt McDermott's credibility.  This is worse because Rivera was an establshed DC--who are your offensive minds that are going to form this committee?  How in the hell do you choose Shula over established NFL Offensive coordinators and then go public stating that he will not be the man in charge of the offense?  I have to think that he is referring to alterations in the system because they like some aspects of Chud's system.  However, Rivera has a lot to learn about building up his coordinators.  We already know that the head coach has the final decisions on offense and defense, so why say it?  Will Shula wait for a smiley face or gold star when he makes a modification or calls a play? 

 

You must have not read the article.

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I would like to think that 4 minds are better than 1, but that is just me. And i don't think Shula cares about how it's done as long as we're winning.

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I see this a negative on Rivera.  What you describe happens on various levels--there are not too many coordinators who do not seek input from everyone involved.  So, why go public and say this?  I think it hurts Shula's credibility for no reason.  Shula has a fairly experienced offensive staff and I am sure he will lean on them.

 

I want Shula to be getting endorsements and votes of confidence.  Although I do not see this as a deliberate attempt to discredit Shula, there is no need to make this statement, in my opinion.

 

In your mind it might be a negative but I read the same article and didn't come to a negative conclusion at all.  In fact I thought it was good that Shula was open to input from the staff and players.  I was encouraged.

 

Funny how 2 people can read the same thing and come to different conclusions. 

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If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?


Any offensive coordinator's "offense" (possessive) is that which he has absorbed from his predecessors and his fellow coaches. For example, the Air Coryell and Bill Walsh West Coast offenses weren't "their" offenses... they were Sid Gillman's 1960s AFL Chargers offense, saving the fact that, yes, through their own use and personal preference put their own "spin" on it.

I highly doubt that Mike Shula will be running this offense in the same manner as Rob Chudzinski. He will take many (most?) of the plays from the Chud book and add them to his own.

That will, of course, be the legitimate Shula playbook.

I'm hoping you really don't believe that OC's, upon their hiring by any team, burn the midnight oil at nights innovating their own new and unique offenses with plays never run by any team before. All coaches are thieves. And just because Shula is and will do what all coaches have done through football time immemorial (i.e. steal/reuse plays) doesn't mean he doesn't have his "own" playbook.

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I would like to think that 4 minds are better than 1, but that is just me. And i don't think Shula cares about how it's done as long as we're winning.


The main thing I get from this is..

Communication. Communication. Communication.

Chud by all accounts was a my way or the highway type and secluded himself in the skybox all season.

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The main thing I get from this is..

Communication. Communication. Communication.

Chud by all accounts was a my way or the highway type and secluded himself in the skybox all season.

 

Sometimes I thought maybe we were all overreacting to Chud not listening to others and being about himself, but this article and what Rivera said just proved to me that this was the case. 

 

Which further puts blame on Chud for the first 6 or 7 games of the season when we were read-option heavy.

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So how is it working out for McDermott.  We were a top 10 defense after being closer to the mid twenties when he took over.  Seems the players and assistant coaches like what he did.  I suspect it will be the same with Shula.  His assistants and the players are behind him which is all the credibility he needs.  If fans don't like him, or he gets criticized in the media,  who really cares. as long as the staff and players are with him, the rest will work itself out when we move the ball and score.

The fact that the team was fairly successful on defense could be attributed to Rivera's involvement--he has a good history.  I am just one who does not llike micromanagement, if that is what happened.  If I am hired to do a job, I would hate it if the boss said, "Well, I will be looking over his shoulder and getting involved in the decisions."  Sure, you may do it, but there is no reason to say that to the press.  The fact that the team did well could be a point to argue, but to what degree was Rivera involved?  His game management suggests maybe that he was not as focused on the big picture as he should have been--just speculating, but my point is this:  After that comment, how do we know what was McD's and what was Rivera's?  Again, I have no idea if any of this is the case, but I am concerned about the inner workngs of a team.  Confidence and the abilty to make decisions is critical.  I do not see Rivera as an overbearing Hitler, so I could be misinterpreting his statements.  I simply question why he made them.

 

The credibilty I am referring to has nothing to do with the fans--it has to do with the players. 

 

I agree that something worked.  I hope it is sustainable.  I also think, after what happened in Philly, that the comment about McD could have been taken out of context or could have been supportive.  Basically, "I am not leaving you out there on an island...I will be with you."

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Sometimes I thought maybe we were all overreacting to Chud not listening to others and being about himself, but this article and what Rivera said just proved to me that this was the case.

Which further puts blame on Chud for the first 6 or 7 games of the season when we were read-option heavy.


Rivera as head coach had a responsibility to put his foot in Chud's ass and tell him to fix it.

It shouldn't have taken half the season...
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fwiw, i do take this as a  positive thing on gameplanning. i think he could be a good leader and despite my lack of faith in him as OC i think he'll manage the offense much better than chud monday thru saturday. 

 

i just don't trust his game management and playcalling. this little write up did nothing to appease my concerns about that which has been my main concerns about him all along. i just wish he would let someone else stay up in the booth and call the plays. everything else about the job i think he would be ok at.

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Sometimes I thought maybe we were all overreacting to Chud not listening to others and being about himself, but this article and what Rivera said just proved to me that this was the case. 

 

Which further puts blame on Chud for the first 6 or 7 games of the season when we were read-option heavy.

i still put blame on rivera. its his team. it doesnt take six or seven weeks with just one or two wins to realize you are doing something wrong. the offense didnt change, not because of chud but because rivera was either too dumb to notice it wasnt working or didnt have the balls to take his team by the reins and put his assistant in his place. chud was bad, but it was rivera's job to right the ship and he waited too long to do it.

 

what's worse in my mind is his lack of ownership. instead of saying that he knows he should have changed things earlier before we got eliminated, he started getting defensive and saying rome wasnt built in a day and other crap things like that.

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In your mind it might be a negative but I read the same article and didn't come to a negative conclusion at all.  In fact I thought it was good that Shula was open to input from the staff and players.  I was encouraged.

 

Funny how 2 people can read the same thing and come to different conclusions. 

I saw that and agree.  I simply start analyzing how this could be perceived by the players.  Ultimately, someone has to make the decisions.  Input is provided by players and coaches on every team.  Is the final decision going to be made by Shula?  If this is to suggest it is not, then I see potential credibility issues.  If it is to be Rivera, then that was always the case and everyone already understands that the head coach has that power--so why state it?

 

Democracy is great, but football is war-sometimes Marshall Law is necessary.  When that time comes, will Shula be the one to take the reins?  I think so, but will Shula feel empowered to make the call when he has to? 

 

There were times last year when I felt that McDermott was on a leash or was the Co-Coordinator.  It was all based on that comment I mentioned.  If I remember it, do the players?

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"Shula, in his third year in Charlotte, will seek input from the entire offensive staff."

 

"And while Rivera has indicated the offense won’t look much different than it did under Chudzinski, he said Shula would bring 'his own personality' to it."

 

As long as this doesn't create a "too many cooks in the kitchen" atmosphere then a collaborative effort is fine. Matching play calling to to the strength of your personal is a good thing, and positional coach input can help this. But what we need to be looking for is Shula making the final say so and this "input" isn't game planning by committee. Sit down, hear everyone out (Like Getts did with the draft) and let Shula make the game plan from there.

 

The continuity of Chud's verbage, selection of plays, and some of the philosophy behind it are welcome.. but progress needs to be expected. "Continuity" in the sucky play calling department are only going to result in a new HC, OC and a totally new game book next year

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Rivera as head coach had a responsibility to put his foot in Chud's ass and tell him to fix it.

It shouldn't have taken half the season...

yep.

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