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Rivera: Panthers' new offense will be more of a collaberative effort

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#16 L-TownCat

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:38 AM

Hopefully its a ridiculous notion to think that Shula's conservative nature and past weren't discussed during his interview process.  The had to ask him if he felt comfortable calling the gutsy play in a big time situation.  Not only would/should they ask if he's comfortable I'm sure/hoping they asked him to show them his plan for different scenarios.  I'm assuming/hoping a lot here but I try to think that Shula's interview wasn't a sweet tea sipping, story telling, contract signing, team destroying move. 



#17 CRA

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:41 AM

If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?


Shula has Cam...

Which means nationally he will be viewed as a "mad scientist" by week 8....just like crappy coaches Chud, Shanahan, etc have thanks to letting a freak athlete simply take the field for the most part.

#18 Zod

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:43 AM

Hopefully its a ridiculous notion to think that Shula's conservative nature and past weren't discussed during his interview process.  The had to ask him if he felt comfortable calling the gutsy play in a big time situation.  Not only would/should they ask if he's comfortable I'm sure/hoping they asked him to show them his plan for different scenarios.  I'm assuming/hoping a lot here but I try to think that Shula's interview wasn't a sweet tea sipping, story telling, contract signing, team destroying move. 

 

The fact that they looked pretty hard to find an external hire tells me Shula's interview was not a cake walk. In the end he must have showed them enough to feel comfortable that he was the best hope at continuity and a winning season. An external hire at OC would have brought an almost sure breaking in period for a new offense.



#19 SCP

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:45 AM

I think the whole coordinator "by committee" philosophy is flawed. If poo hits the fan the front office can pull the ol' Abbott & Costello "Who's on first" routine. But I'm just a sales guy so what do I know?

#20 Cyberjag

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:49 AM

Then again you loved Henning's offense when he was here.  Remember the always hike the ball on the first sound to avoid confusion.  Sometimes the defense got there before the center could snap it to the quarterback....

Just saying.......................

 

I love any offense that moves the chains. :)



#21 Panthro

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

I think the whole coordinator "by committee" philosophy is flawed. If poo hits the fan the front office can pull the ol' Abbott & Costello "Who's on first" routine. But I'm just a sales guy so what do I know?

 

I personally think a collaborative approach (if it has the buy in of the parties involved) could prove to be far superior to the sole "I know best" approach.

 

But I am just a hippie sales person who jives on system and divergent thinking.



#22 MHS831

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:04 AM

A few points and counterpoints:

 

First of all, I do not claim to know the answer, but I have been around the game my entire life as a player, coach, and fan.  Here is what I have learned in response to these issues:

`1.  People are concerned because Shula has a conservative history.

a. Shula's Tide and Shula's Bucs had no real QB.  Historically, here at Carolina and everywhere else, you get conservative when you do not have a strong QB. 

b. People in the NFL die on the vine if they do not evolve.  People are comparing his offense at Tampa when the focus there and league-wide was on defense.  Shula never had more than a game manager and that is what he was told to do.

c. Shula was a QB who coached Cam for 2 years.  His job, for 40 games (including the preseason) has been to focus on Cam Newton.  This is the reason he was retained and it is not a small reason.   He has spent thousands of hours watching Cam Newton.  He knows Cam's quirks, his strengths and weaknesses better than anyone on the planet.  As Cam goes, this offense goes.  As Cam goes, the Panthers go. 

d. IF we get more conservative, that is not a bad thing.  We were three and out a lot last year.  Our defense got tired, which is why we sucked in the fourth quarter.  Silatolu and Kugbila (I think he will start) will be better as run blocking.  We have Tolbert, Barner, DWill, and Stewart.  Play action would make the offense harder to defend.  Stop the run, then the pass, then the QB from running.  Watch Tolbert and Barner in the flats, cover the TE with 4.5 speed, double Smitty, and still contain the 250 lb running QB---a nightmare. If you take the run element out, the Panthers are defendable.  Think about last year--how many yards did Double Trouble get?  When this team has succeeded, they have run the football. 25 yard pass completions are nice, but give me five, five-yard runs instead.  That is ball control, resting the defense, and when you have the ball, their team does not.

e. Do not judge Shula by what he did 13 years ago with QBs like Dilfer and King.  Would you open up the offense with Altstott and Dunn in the backfield?

e.



#23 L-TownCat

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:08 AM

The fact that they looked pretty hard to find an external hire tells me Shula's interview was not a cake walk. In the end he must have showed them enough to feel comfortable that he was the best hope at continuity and a winning season. An external hire at OC would have brought an almost sure breaking in period for a new offense.



This is what I've been thinking but I've been accused before of wearing my electric blue glasses. I think the truth lies somewhere between Shula being the right man for the job, and a franchise concerned with hindering the development of its franchise QB. It's a high wire act but in the end should prove to be the right choice.

#24 CRA

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:13 AM

A few points and counterpoints:

First of all, I do not claim to know the answer, but I have been around the game my entire life as a player, coach, and fan. Here is what I have learned in response to these issues:
`1. People are concerned because Shula has a conservative history.
a. Shula's Tide and Shula's Bucs had no real QB. Historically, here at Carolina and everywhere else, you get conservative when you do not have a strong QB.
b. People in the NFL die on the vine if they do not evolve. People are comparing his offense at Tampa when the focus there and league-wide was on defense. Shula never had more than a game manager and that is what he was told to do.
c. Shula was a QB who coached Cam for 2 years. His job, for 40 games (including the preseason) has been to focus on Cam Newton. This is the reason he was retained and it is not a small reason. He has spent thousands of hours watching Cam Newton. He knows Cam's quirks, his strengths and weaknesses better than anyone on the planet. As Cam goes, this offense goes. As Cam goes, the Panthers go.
d. IF we get more conservative, that is not a bad thing. We were three and out a lot last year. Our defense got tired, which is why we sucked in the fourth quarter. Silatolu and Kugbila (I think he will start) will be better as run blocking. We have Tolbert, Barner, DWill, and Stewart. Play action would make the offense harder to defend. Stop the run, then the pass, then the QB from running. Watch Tolbert and Barner in the flats, cover the TE with 4.5 speed, double Smitty, and still contain the 250 lb running QB---a nightmare. If you take the run element out, the Panthers are defendable. Think about last year--how many yards did Double Trouble get? When this team has succeeded, they have run the football. 25 yard pass completions are nice, but give me five, five-yard runs instead. That is ball control, resting the defense, and when you have the ball, their team does not.
e. Do not judge Shula by what he did 13 years ago with QBs like Dilfer and King. Would you open up the offense with Altstott and Dunn in the backfield?
e.


Something about ball control + Cam Newton doesn't mesh.

Do we really want ball control to be our signature with a dynamic QB like Cam? Sure, situationally it is a good thing....but ball control offenses usually involve trying to win with weak QB play.

#25 rayzor

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:17 AM

I personally think a collaborative approach (if it has the buy in of the parties involved) could prove to be far superior to the sole "I know best" approach.

 

But I am just a hippie sales person who jives on system and divergent thinking.

i think its a smart way to go, but esp. when you hav  limited ability.

 

i'm just not sure how this collaberative thing will work on game day. conference call prior to each play?



#26 TheRumGone

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:20 AM

i think its a smart way to go, but esp. when you hav  limited ability.

 

i'm just not sure how this collaberative thing will work on game day. conference call prior to each play?

 

lol. Maybe i was just reading into the article, but Rivera was pretty much saying Shula is the complete opposite of Chud. It almost seemed like he was slamming Chud in the article to me.

 

Everyone's opinion will be taken into considerations including Cam, which i think will be best for everybody. I want to see Cam take the reigns of the offense more and more as the years go by.



#27 rayzor

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:24 AM

If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

 

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

 

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?

he wasn't hired because he was the most talented prospect. he was hired because he was here already and because he would use the playbook that was here. you know....the whole continuity thing.

 

best thing he can do for himself and the team is get himself out of the way and do his best to not leave his stamp on things....which is what rivera is trying to avoid, apparently. can't say i blame him.

 

nice try on his behalf to say he was impressed with how aggressive shula was. he might be aggressive,  but i've  known plenty of aggressive people who couldn't make good and/or quick decisions so that didn't exactly win me over.



#28 Cyberjag

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:26 AM

I would guess that the collaborative approach will have more to do with game-planning than calling plays.  That's not a bad thing either.



#29 panthers55

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:27 AM

If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

 

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

 

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?

.

 

Seems to me it may be more about how Chud didn't let others contribute as much as Rivera would have liked instead of a knock on Shula

 

 



#30 MHS831

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:27 AM

Something about ball control + Cam Newton doesn't mesh.

Do we really want ball control to be our signature with a dynamic QB like Cam? Sure, situationally it is a good thing....but ball control offenses usually involve trying to win with weak QB play.

I am glad you pointed this out because I did not want to leave the impression that I am suggesting Henning/Davidson.  I simply think Cam will be better when the D has to address the run game.  We were terrible running the ball last year, and we saw mostly nickel defenses.  I simply want the offense to establish the run more.  I think the vertical passing game opens up, Cam would be unstoppable if the defense was forced to stop other players.  

 

I also agree with Razor.  How the heck will the committee system work?  i tried that once with girlfriends in college and it did not bode well for me.





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