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Rivera: Panthers' new offense will be more of a collaberative effort

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#31 rayzor

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:31 AM

lol. Maybe i was just reading into the article, but Rivera was pretty much saying Shula is the complete opposite of Chud. It almost seemed like he was slamming Chud in the article to me.

 

Everyone's opinion will be taken into considerations including Cam, which i think will be best for everybody. I want to see Cam take the reigns of the offense more and more as the years go by.

it could be both.

 

chud was all about chud making chud look good.

 

i think shula is more of a team player so thats good...i just dont think hes cut out for this role.

 

fwiw, i think he'd be a better HC than OC, and thats not me saying he'd suck at both, just less at HC. i think he would be a better macro-manager than micro-manager. i just don't think he should be running the offense because i don't think that is his strength. 



#32 MHS831

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:34 AM

Extending Zod's comment--

Rivera said the same thing about McDermott when he hired him, and think it hurt McDermott's credibility.  This is worse because Rivera was an establshed DC--who are your offensive minds that are going to form this committee?  How in the hell do you choose Shula over established NFL Offensive coordinators and then go public stating that he will not be the man in charge of the offense?  I have to think that he is referring to alterations in the system because they like some aspects of Chud's system.  However, Rivera has a lot to learn about building up his coordinators.  We already know that the head coach has the final decisions on offense and defense, so why say it?  Will Shula wait for a smiley face or gold star when he makes a modification or calls a play? 



#33 panthers55

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:35 AM

Shula will call plays and design the game plan.  He will simply let the players and other coaches to have more input.  Seems like a win-win for everyone.  Funny how some people put a negative spin on everything about Shula. Then again if you only look for the negative you will usually find what you are looking for.



#34 Cary Kollins

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

What I got from the article:

 

 

"we could really be a really good team.”

 



#35 MHS831

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:40 AM

Shula will call plays and design the game plan.  He will simply let the players and other coaches to have more input.  Seems like a win-win for everyone.  Funny how some people put a negative spin on everything about Shula. Then again if you only look for the negative you will usually find what you are looking for.

I see this a negative on Rivera.  What you describe happens on various levels--there are not too many coordinators who do not seek input from everyone involved.  So, why go public and say this?  I think it hurts Shula's credibility for no reason.  Shula has a fairly experienced offensive staff and I am sure he will lean on them.

 

I want Shula to be getting endorsements and votes of confidence.  Although I do not see this as a deliberate attempt to discredit Shula, there is no need to make this statement, in my opinion.



#36 TheRed

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

Per usual way too much reading into things and jumping to conclusions.

"I'm not a Negative Nancy, I'm just realistic. Stop persecuting me!"

#37 panthers55

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

Extending Zod's comment--

Rivera said the same thing about McDermott when he hired him, and think it hurt McDermott's credibility.  This is worse because Rivera was an establshed DC--who are your offensive minds that are going to form this committee?  How in the hell do you choose Shula over established NFL Offensive coordinators and then go public stating that he will not be the man in charge of the offense?  I have to think that he is referring to alterations in the system because they like some aspects of Chud's system.  However, Rivera has a lot to learn about building up his coordinators.  We already know that the head coach has the final decisions on offense and defense, so why say it?  Will Shula wait for a smiley face or gold star when he makes a modification or calls a play? 

 

So how is it working out for McDermott.  We were a top 10 defense after being closer to the mid twenties when he took over.  Seems the players and assistant coaches like what he did.  I suspect it will be the same with Shula.  His assistants and the players are behind him which is all the credibility he needs.  If fans don't like him, or he gets criticized in the media,  who really cares. as long as the staff and players are with him, the rest will work itself out when we move the ball and score.



#38 TheRumGone

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:42 AM

Extending Zod's comment--

Rivera said the same thing about McDermott when he hired him, and think it hurt McDermott's credibility.  This is worse because Rivera was an establshed DC--who are your offensive minds that are going to form this committee?  How in the hell do you choose Shula over established NFL Offensive coordinators and then go public stating that he will not be the man in charge of the offense?  I have to think that he is referring to alterations in the system because they like some aspects of Chud's system.  However, Rivera has a lot to learn about building up his coordinators.  We already know that the head coach has the final decisions on offense and defense, so why say it?  Will Shula wait for a smiley face or gold star when he makes a modification or calls a play? 

 

You must have not read the article.



#39 TheRumGone

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

I would like to think that 4 minds are better than 1, but that is just me. And i don't think Shula cares about how it's done as long as we're winning.



#40 panthers55

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:44 AM

I see this a negative on Rivera.  What you describe happens on various levels--there are not too many coordinators who do not seek input from everyone involved.  So, why go public and say this?  I think it hurts Shula's credibility for no reason.  Shula has a fairly experienced offensive staff and I am sure he will lean on them.

 

I want Shula to be getting endorsements and votes of confidence.  Although I do not see this as a deliberate attempt to discredit Shula, there is no need to make this statement, in my opinion.

 

In your mind it might be a negative but I read the same article and didn't come to a negative conclusion at all.  In fact I thought it was good that Shula was open to input from the staff and players.  I was encouraged.

 

Funny how 2 people can read the same thing and come to different conclusions. 



#41 tiger7_88

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:48 AM

If I was Shula I would not like this at all.

He needs to make a mark as a legit OC and get back in the game. Instead, it isn't even his offense, its the panthers offense?

What message does that send to him in the confidence RIvera has?


Any offensive coordinator's "offense" (possessive) is that which he has absorbed from his predecessors and his fellow coaches. For example, the Air Coryell and Bill Walsh West Coast offenses weren't "their" offenses... they were Sid Gillman's 1960s AFL Chargers offense, saving the fact that, yes, through their own use and personal preference put their own "spin" on it.

I highly doubt that Mike Shula will be running this offense in the same manner as Rob Chudzinski. He will take many (most?) of the plays from the Chud book and add them to his own.

That will, of course, be the legitimate Shula playbook.

I'm hoping you really don't believe that OC's, upon their hiring by any team, burn the midnight oil at nights innovating their own new and unique offenses with plays never run by any team before. All coaches are thieves. And just because Shula is and will do what all coaches have done through football time immemorial (i.e. steal/reuse plays) doesn't mean he doesn't have his "own" playbook.

#42 TheRed

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:48 AM

I would like to think that 4 minds are better than 1, but that is just me. And i don't think Shula cares about how it's done as long as we're winning.


The main thing I get from this is..

Communication. Communication. Communication.

Chud by all accounts was a my way or the highway type and secluded himself in the skybox all season.

#43 TheRumGone

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:52 AM

The main thing I get from this is..

Communication. Communication. Communication.

Chud by all accounts was a my way or the highway type and secluded himself in the skybox all season.

 

Sometimes I thought maybe we were all overreacting to Chud not listening to others and being about himself, but this article and what Rivera said just proved to me that this was the case. 

 

Which further puts blame on Chud for the first 6 or 7 games of the season when we were read-option heavy.



#44 MHS831

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:54 AM

So how is it working out for McDermott.  We were a top 10 defense after being closer to the mid twenties when he took over.  Seems the players and assistant coaches like what he did.  I suspect it will be the same with Shula.  His assistants and the players are behind him which is all the credibility he needs.  If fans don't like him, or he gets criticized in the media,  who really cares. as long as the staff and players are with him, the rest will work itself out when we move the ball and score.

The fact that the team was fairly successful on defense could be attributed to Rivera's involvement--he has a good history.  I am just one who does not llike micromanagement, if that is what happened.  If I am hired to do a job, I would hate it if the boss said, "Well, I will be looking over his shoulder and getting involved in the decisions."  Sure, you may do it, but there is no reason to say that to the press.  The fact that the team did well could be a point to argue, but to what degree was Rivera involved?  His game management suggests maybe that he was not as focused on the big picture as he should have been--just speculating, but my point is this:  After that comment, how do we know what was McD's and what was Rivera's?  Again, I have no idea if any of this is the case, but I am concerned about the inner workngs of a team.  Confidence and the abilty to make decisions is critical.  I do not see Rivera as an overbearing Hitler, so I could be misinterpreting his statements.  I simply question why he made them.

 

The credibilty I am referring to has nothing to do with the fans--it has to do with the players. 

 

I agree that something worked.  I hope it is sustainable.  I also think, after what happened in Philly, that the comment about McD could have been taken out of context or could have been supportive.  Basically, "I am not leaving you out there on an island...I will be with you."



#45 TheRed

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:55 AM

Sometimes I thought maybe we were all overreacting to Chud not listening to others and being about himself, but this article and what Rivera said just proved to me that this was the case.

Which further puts blame on Chud for the first 6 or 7 games of the season when we were read-option heavy.


Rivera as head coach had a responsibility to put his foot in Chud's ass and tell him to fix it.

It shouldn't have taken half the season...



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