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Apple avoided paying billions in taxes

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As far as they are 5 times worse than a crack head mom...

 

these companies do nothing more than shift some of their monies to other areas to avoid taxation.  Do you enjoy your tax deduction for contributing to your IRA?  Do you do things to reduce your tax burden?  Now...weighed against everything it seems really extreme, but as long as they are following the law...what are you complaining about.  Do you want US corporations to be taxed MORE?  How do you think that will change things?  More companies will just move to Ireland or Zug, Switzerland. 

 

I'll be quick, for I have appointments today and I know you have to get to the radio soon for Rush. 

 

Lets take the "crackhead" part out for this discussion. I was using it as it is a popular label, but for what I am about to say it's better to use this "Low Income, 4 babies, welfare queen, with cell phones, etc" meme.

 

You can't cry moral outrage at some random person, who is shit ass poor, taking advantage of free government hand outs (gaming the systems) costing the Tax Payers, i dunno 50K a year? in lost tax dollars

 

THEN Turn around and say what you said above.

 

Who has hurt the American Public more? Random welfare queen whom we don't know all her circumstances. 

 

ooorrrrrr

 

Mega Billion Dollar coorporation that not only ships its factory jobs overseas so children can make our iPads, but then hides the money in 

 

Some of these subsidiaries had no employees and were largely run by top officials from the company’s headquarters in Cupertino, Calif., according to congressional investigators. But by officially locating them in places like Ireland, Apple was able to, in effect, make them stateless – exempt from taxes, record-keeping laws and the need for the subsidiaries to even file tax returns anywhere in the world.

 

...

 

Sorry, I'll gladly take my swings at company robbing my country of taxation on almost 100 billion dollars over 3-4 years before I take my swings at someone living below the poverty level.

 

 

No one want's anyone to pay more taxes.

It would be REALLY fucking nice tho if everyone paid what they are supposed to pay.

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Let's say you close the loophole and "punish" them.  What stops them from just picking up and moving completely to Zug. 

 

 

"Punishing" companies by asking them to pay tax on BILLIONS in profit?

 

You ask "What stops them from just picking up and moving completely to Zug?" 

 

Like I said, if they want to pack up and leave America because they can't afford to pay taxes on $30 billion in profit.  LET THEM MOVE. 

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I'll be quick, for I have appointments today and I know you have to get to the radio soon for Rush. 
 
Lets take the "crackhead" part out for this discussion. I was using it as it is a popular label, but for what I am about to say it's better to use this "Low Income, 4 babies, welfare queen, with cell phones, etc" meme.
 
You can't cry moral outrage at some random person, who is poo ass poor, taking advantage of free government hand outs (gaming the systems) costing the Tax Payers, i dunno 50K a year? in lost tax dollars
 
THEN Turn around and say what you said above.
 
Who has hurt the American Public more? Random welfare queen whom we don't know all her circumstances. 
 
ooorrrrrr
 
Mega Billion Dollar coorporation that not only ships its factory jobs overseas so children can make our iPads, but then hides the money in 
...
 
Sorry, I'll gladly take my swings at company robbing my country of taxation on almost 100 billion dollars over 3-4 years before I take my swings at someone living below the poverty level.
 
 
No one want's anyone to pay more taxes.
It would be REALLY fuging nice tho if everyone paid what they are supposed to pay.



Completely agree on your overall point here Kurb... only difference I see is that the company is using "legal" means to move profits overseas to avoid taxes and (in your example of "gaming the system") the person is essentially committing fraud. I think both acts need to be stopped... both by changing the laws, particularly the large companies skirting the paying of taxes with armies of lawyers and accountants.

Close the loopholes. Fix the tax and accounting systems that allow companies to do these practices. Lower the tax rate if necessary to compete with these overseas countries that companies move to.

Also, when comparing these things obviously one large company isn't the same as one individual "gaming the system"... (and in reality it's probably not even a comparison of a LOT of individuals "gaming the system") but steps should be taken to reduce the defrauding of government programs, both by individuals and by companies.




Now to reality... these large companies own the lawmakers. Nothing will change.

Apple can take a chunk of that $30B they saved and purchase enough votes to never have to worry about this.

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Fair or not, this is what happens when you raise taxes. It will go to the cost for manufacture just as research and the like does. They will raise prices to offset the cost. Hence, the Consumer will end up paying the difference.... only, it will be exponential as they are taxed for every tier necessary to get it to the shelf to purchase. Then, when all those taxes are done, the consumer is taxed at the point of sale to make sure we can get ever closer to that 5 trillion dollar non-budget that DC so desperately needs every year

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Everybody's a modern day Robin Hood.

 

Problem is there are more takers than givers right now.  Do I really need to prove that statement?

 

My point regarding "punish" was to highlight what companies DO when they feel they can reduce their tax burden legally.  They do it.  Are you willing to reduce the corporate rate to bring companies BACK into the US and pay their fair share?  Or attempt to come up with some other tax where a company has no choice but to completely pull up and move to a Mexico or somewhere else to completely avoid US corporate taxation. 

 

Explain how any of your ideas benefit the US long term. 

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Senator John McCain: Apple Is Cheating The U.S.A. In Taxes
 

Senator John McCain just laid out his case against Apple in Washington D.C. in a Senate hearing about Apple’s tax rates, and he’s out for blood.

According to McCain, although 95% of Apple’s research and development happens in the USA, they funnel most of their profits through overseas entities that are not tax residents in any country in the world.


Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/228111/senator-john-mccain-apple-is-cheating-the-u-s-a-in-taxes/#UGlPWlQDAdaTIFsV.99

 

 

That's a very old Robin Hood there

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As I stated in a different thread...these loopholes are there purposely. They were written by Corp interests with Congressional buy-in. Both R & D are at fault.

 

Congress creates a mess of a tax system. Asks for campaign support from Corps to allow loophole (or Corp wrote the loophole and sent the bill with campaign support to congressmen). See how the game is played.

 

Now welfare queens is an easier topic. That is individual responsibility.

Apple and all public corps are responsible to the shareholders (granted, most of the stock is held by investment firms not individual investors).

 

Now the killer is all major corporations take advantage of these loopholes. But smaller businesses don't have these luxuries. A small US manufacturer  can't move their office to Ireland (like Apple) and make it work. I would wager you have to reach a certain profit floor before you can see the real tax savings to take advantage of these loopholes. Hell, Apple/Google/MS may have written this loophole years ago. Hmm, may need to take a look at which company moved offices to Ireland first........

 

So who gets screwed......small businesses who just try to survive.

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John McCain...

 

"moderate"

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Now the answer is not to just close the loopholes, you would need to lower the base tax rate as well. Otherwise more work goes overseas. BRIC, Taiwan, some EU countries would offer tax free specials in a heart beat.

 

Now the conspiracist(?) in me says this is all for show. Maybe someone in Gov't didn't get their free IPAD for their family and is just setting up this theatre. Apple has new contracts with the DOD and other Gov't agencies to supply IPads, IPhones, & Itouch. IIRC, you need a % of US touch to get a Gov't contract. So Apple announced a short while ago that they will be manufacturing some of their devices in the US starting this year or early 2014.

 

Apple, GM, GE, MS, Google, FB, Intel, AMD, Big Oil, heck every company probably has a special loophole written specially for them. THIS IS WHY YOU LIMIT THE POWER OF THE FEDERAL GOV'T. By given them the power you breed the incest, corruption. Hence I'm a small federal gov't kind of guy. Local gov'ts can change on a whim quickly, but the Federal beast can't be killed.

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The IRS and current tax code needs to be completely destroyed and written in much better/easier format.

 

The Feds don't want that.  Nor do the companies.

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Everybody's a modern day Robin Hood.

 

Problem is there are more takers than givers right now.  Do I really need to prove that statement?

 

My point regarding "punish" was to highlight what companies DO when they feel they can reduce their tax burden legally.  They do it.  Are you willing to reduce the corporate rate to bring companies BACK into the US and pay their fair share?  Or attempt to come up with some other tax where a company has no choice but to completely pull up and move to a Mexico or somewhere else to completely avoid US corporate taxation. 

 

Explain how any of your ideas benefit the US long term. 

Companies won't just pull up and leave in most cases. Small companies that are run by irrational people, yes, but major corporations that are run by smart people, no.

 

Taxes are not the number 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 reason for companies choosing to do business where they do. If taxes were the most important thing, most of our Fortune 500 companies would be headquartered in the rural Southeast or Midwest...or in developing countries  They're not because those a terrible places to live. Places that a major company could never get sophisticated individuals to move to and where the necessary intellectual capital does not exist. 

 

Apple is who they are because of the talent they have assembled. Human capital is the most important thing for any business, especially one that relies on innovation to drive profit.

 

Move the company's operations to Mexico or hell even a lot of European countries and you lose a lot of that talent because employees care about location.

 

Companies value infrastructure, intellectual capital, lifestyle amenities,  and stability above all else. Tax burden matters of course, but not to the extent that many like to believe because it doesn't fit the republican dogma. As long as the tax loopholes exist they'll take advantage of them, but if they go away, they'll pay what they're required to. Plus I believe a lot of people underestimate how many people take pride in employing American workers, especially at small and medium sized businesses.

 

Lowering the corporate tax rate is not a bad idea, but it can only be done if loopholes are closed. All of them. I doubt that'll happen. I have no confidence in loopholes being closed because billions of dollars would be spent to protect them, but I feel like despite that, a republican super majority would still push through a lower corporate tax rate.

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@LATstevelopez: Billions in Calif. school cuts while Apple avoids taxes, now the company wants to sell iPads to schools http://t.co/yv5P7VLZYZ
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