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Johnathan Jones of the Charlotte Observer: Impressions after Day 3


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#31 rayzor

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

i'm still laughing about that game manager thing. wow priceless.

 

gambler is a good description of him. i think gunslinger fits as well, mainly because i view gunslingers as being risk taking throw first, ask questions later, long ball guys. jake may not have had a cannon for an arm, but the dude launched more than a few long balls in his day into very crowded areas.



#32 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

i'm still laughing about that game manager thing. wow priceless.

 

gambler is a good description of him. i think gunslinger fits as well, mainly because i view gunslingers as being risk taking throw first, ask questions later, long ball guys. jake may not have had a cannon for an arm, but the dude launched more than a few long balls in his day into very crowded areas.

yep.

 

Gunslinger IMO isn't about arm strength...it is about decision making and approach of the position.   Having a rocket arm doesn't make you a gunslinger....throwing into triple coverage 30 yards downfield off your backfoot with your tongue hanging out.... to your boy on 3rd and 5 for a TD does.



#33 top dawg

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:47 AM

No one is arguing Jake is elite or a HOFer.  But people claiming Jake in his prime would be a backup to Drew Stanton need to get there head checked.

 

Smitty is a HOF talent....who won't have a HOF resume if his career ended today.

 

No one claimed Jake would be Drew Stanton's back-up.

 

Anyway, just because you state that Smitty doesn't have a HOF resume doesn't mean that he doesn't have one.  When 89 hangs up his cleats---whether it be 3 days or three years---he is immediately in the discussion. many of his peers, past and present, seem to respect his resume more than some Panthers fans.



#34 rayzor

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:49 AM

there's this annoying new school mindset (i refuse to believe that gucci mane was older than 12 in 2003) that any quarterback who doesn't complete 65%-plus of his passes with like single digit INTs is a "game manager".

 

trent dilfer and brad johnson were game managers, okay?  their job was essentially to possess the ball, get in to field goal range, punch it in if possible, and not put their defense in an unfavorable position.

 

e: that's not to say that elite quarterbacks can't or aren't asked to manage the game in certain situations, of course, because they are.

 

yep. game managers job is to protect the ball...that means keep it on the ground as much as possible and throw short safe high percentage passes to open players with as little risk of losing the ball as possible.

 

we ran a lot, but we also threw a lot as well and i don't know many who didn't hold their breath just about every time jake cocked back that arm to throw cause you never knew what was going to happen. sometimes it would result in amazing catches that launch us downfield and other times it would get picked off...and each had about an equal chance of happening.

 

when it was crunch time in the 4th, tho, is when jake worked his magic. he was able to pull out some very tough wins mainly because of his gunslinger/gambling mindset.

 

one thing is for sure, he didn't play it safe. in '09 is when they tried turning him into a game manager and it failed miserably. they made him think about what he was doing and it screwed him up almost as much as having his elbow explode. he couldn't just react anymore. they tried backing off the coaching, but it was way too late. truthfully, tho, after tommy joe attacked him they should have been actively looking for his replacement.



#35 rayzor

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:50 AM

yep.

 

Gunslinger IMO isn't about arm strength...it is about decision making and approach of the position.   Having a rocket arm doesn't make you a gunslinger....throwing into triple coverage 30 yards downfield off your backfoot with your tongue hanging out.... to your boy on 3rd and 5 for a TD does.

 

and with your pants ripped. can't forget that.
 



#36 top dawg

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:55 AM

i'm still laughing about that game manager thing. wow priceless.

 

gambler is a good description of him. i think gunslinger fits as well, mainly because i view gunslingers as being risk taking throw first, ask questions later, long ball guys. jake may not have had a cannon for an arm, but the dude launched more than a few long balls in his day into very crowded areas.

 

You laugh, but others thought of Delhomme as a game manager. The concept is far from foreign. Google Delhomme and "game manager". What in the world? Perhaps it's semantics or plain old revisionist history on someone's part, but Jake Delhomme was a known game manager by more than a few.



#37 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:57 AM

No one claimed Jake would be Drew Stanton's back-up.

 

Anyway, just because you state that Smitty doesn't have a HOF resume doesn't mean that he doesn't have one.  When 89 hangs up his cleats---whether it be 3 days or three years---he is immediately in the discussion. many of his peers, past and present, seem to respect his resume more than some Panthers fans.

whatever comment was made about Drew Stanton, Shaun Hill, etc...that just ain't right.  You could say Jake Delhomme could outplay Manning, Brady, whoever on any given Sunday as well...

 

Smitty is a HOF talent.  He just doesn't have HOF numbers.  HOF is a numbers game.  If his career ended today, by the time he was eligible....nothing on his NUMBERS resume would standout.   His career yards will be his big number and by the time he is eligible it just won't be enough (his standing will of fallen)

 

Talent wise? Splash reel? In his prime? I'd take Smith in his prime against anyone...

 

Numbers are too big of a factor for HOF and WRs already struggle to get in with much much better ones.   I have always said, if Smith where to have a shot...it would be for him to finish off his POSTSEASON resume strong.  His postseason resume pace could of been a gamechanger for his odds....2 postseason runs and a ring? Maybe, he could get in if he played big.  Today, he simply doesn't have a HOF resume.



#38 rayzor

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:21 AM

You laugh, but others thought of Delhomme as a game manager. The concept is far from foreign. Google Delhomme and "game manager". What in the world? Perhaps it's semantics or plain old revisionist history on someone's part, but Jake Delhomme was a known game manager by more than a few.

they must not have watched more than a couple games.



#39 top dawg

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:21 AM

whatever comment was made about Drew Stanton, Shaun Hill, etc...that just ain't right.  You could say Jake Delhomme could outplay Manning, Brady, whoever on any given Sunday as well...

 

Smitty is a HOF talent.  He just doesn't have HOF numbers.  HOF is a numbers game.  If his career ended today, by the time he was eligible....nothing on his NUMBERS resume would standout.   His career yards will be his big number and by the time he is eligible it just won't be enough.

 

Talent wise? Splash reel? In his prime? I'd take Smith in his prime against anyone...

 

Numbers are too big of a factor for HOF and WRs already struggle to get in with much much better ones.   I have always said, if Smith where to have a shot...it would be for him to finish off his POSTSEASON resume strong.  His postseason resume pace could of been a gamechanger for his odds....2 postseason runs and a ring? Maybe, he could get in if he played big.  Today, he simply doesn't have a HOF resume.

 

I'm through with the rehash-Jake therapy feel-good session.

 

 

 

 

In regards to Smitty:

 

Today he has a "puncher's chance". Tomorrow, who knows?

 

Still, any derivative of poo and Smitty don't belong in the same sentence, and most certainly not in reference to a guy who (Megatron or Smitty) who hasn't even finished his career. 

 



#40 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

I'm through with the rehash-Jake therapy feel-good session.

 

 

 

 

In regards to Smitty:

 

Today he has a "puncher's chance". Tomorrow, who knows?

 

Still, any derivative of poo and Smitty don't belong in the same sentence, and most certainly not in reference to a guy who (Megatron or Smitty) who hasn't even finished his career. 

ok.

 

Smitty.  Can we just talk numbers in regards to HOF.  Nothing else.  If Smith's retired today....do you think he has the numbers?  If yes, do you think Santana Moss has the numbers?

 

I personally don't think numbers should be the end all be all...but I think you start the conversation just looking there.



#41 top dawg

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

ok.

 

Smitty.  Can we just talk numbers in regards to HOF.  Nothing else.  If Smith's retired today....do you think he has the numbers?  If yes, do you think Santana Moss has the numbers?

 

I personally don't think numbers should be the end all be all...but I think you start the conversation just looking there.

 

In regards to the literal numbers, which rightly or wrongly are many a person's litmus test to determining hall of fame material, you're more than likely correct, CRA, Smitty does not get in---not immediately. Not ever. But then when you take intangibles into account, and more importantly Steve Smith's impact upon his games and the game of football, perhaps he will get in one day (based only upon his play up to today). Will people's perceptions and thoughts on what justifies a spot in Canton hopefully evolve over the years which would help Smith and others get into the Hall? Maybe. Is it likely? Perhaps not.  My thing is that for what Smith brings to the game, especially when he was in his prime, so-to-speak, poo and Smitty don't belong in the same sentence, ever. Call my thinking on this clouded, "homerish, emo (which I am really not trying to convey)" or whatever, but that's my whole point.



#42 Snake

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

Im still glad we have a good RB core with stew down.

#43 tiger7_88

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:02 AM

Statements on Stewart are concerning....understanding that camp is 8 weeks away and the seson 12-14 weeks...at some point, the man has to be healthy or it's chronic.

 

Of course, he had an issue before being drafted  in the first round with his foot and was 'cleared' by Panthers doctors.

 

I really like Jonathan; but at some point, chronic becomes a problem even if he manages to get in the game.

 

 

What I'm thinking is that, unlike the "GIVE ME SIXTH ROUND WAHD RECEEBERS!!!!" crowd, maybe Gettlemen knew what he was doing selecting Barner.



#44 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:03 AM

In regards to the literal numbers, which rightly or wrongly are many a person's litmus test to determining hall of fame material, you're more than likely correct, CRA, Smitty does not get in---not immediately. Not ever. But then when you take intangibles into account, and more importantly Steve Smith's impact upon his games and the game of football, perhaps he will get in one day (based only upon his play up to today). Will people's perceptions and thoughts on what justifies a spot in Canton hopefully evolve over the years which would help Smith and others get into the Hall? Maybe. Is it likely? Perhaps not.  My thing is that for what Smith brings to the game, especially when he was in his prime, so-to-speak, poo and Smitty don't belong in the same sentence, ever. Call my thinking on this clouded, "homerish, emo (which I am really not trying to convey)" or whatever, but that's my whole point.

well....if am still pulling for him.  Again, I think he has a shot if he can find a ring w/ 2 more deep postseason runs.  His career playoff numbers would help a lot.  I mean after 2005....he had set himself up for something crazy.  He just couldn't get back.



#45 Gucci Mane

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa.........

 

jake a game manager? lol you must not have really paid attention. the dude was nothing but a risk taker as a passer, always airing it out way down field in some really reckless situations just trusting that smitty or whoever would be able to grab it.

 

game manager = safe and controlled ≠ jake delhomme

 

Just because jake sucks as a QB doesnt make him a "gunslinger" he was a game managning QB who sucked and threw Ints... why dont you read up of the two terms and look at history. They are types of players, not adjectives after-the-fact.

 

Edit: gunslingers throw big yardage games.. game managers dont... I dont recall jake having too many big yardage games. a lot of INTs thrown, yes, but never aired it out. he was in a system to be a game manager, and just failed to be a quality QB, except for maybe two/three ok years.




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