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How are those conservative austerity ideas working out?

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Posted

The reason you can't refute it is because you've nothing to back up any response you'd put forth.

People can rant and rave all they like, but the reality remaihttp://abcnews.go.com/Health/terrified-motorists-lift-bridge/story?id=19250164ns as it is.

I can't refute something you didn't even answer. All you gave was a long winded soapboxing answer about producers versus moochers.

I didn't want to put words in your mouth but there are some people who agree with you. There are people who think that the world economy is headed for inevitable collapse so we should just expedite the process because they believe the only way to correct the market is for it to collapse.

I don't believe that though. Despite what you and others say we are not a "welfare state". We still have the most powerful economy in the world. We are still a capitalistic society not a socialist society. Producers still make tons of money and are making more money and control more money than ever before.

We still have the most millionaires in the world. We have over 5 million millionaires in this country. The next closest is Japan and we have nearly triple the amount they have.

Our GDP is still twice that of China's (and they are going crash soon) and 3x the size of Japan. No one else is even close.

Our welfare expenditure as % of GDP is amongst the lowest in the world.

Immigrants from all around the world are clamoring to get into this country because of our powerful economy and strong middle class.

Over 90% of our entitlements go to the elderly, veterans, and working poor.

So my point is the entire basis of your argument is that the producers would be disincentivized because their work would not be realized and would either just join the welfare state or go where it is better for them.

So where would they go? We are still the country that creates the most millionaires. How are they going to join the welfare state? Are they going to trade in their wealth to become a working poor? Are they going to disable themselves? Are they going to pick up a gun and defend the country?

Carrying debt as a nation is not an inherently bad thing but it does need to be kept in check. But the idea that we are so far gone with debt and moochers that we should just collapse our economy and start over with austerity measures is for the ill informed and is not necessary to stabilize our government and the dollar.

And this precise way of thinking is the exact reason that the Tea Party hopefully will never have any true power in this country.

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Posted

We are already struggling with paying the interest on the national debt before our credit rating was lowered. Again, the debt is a symptom of the problem. The trend is clear with the rise of the number of people that produce nothing attaining ever more power to take from those that DO produce. Making money is not the same as producing. This very fact is reflected in how the richest 7 counties out of the top 10 in the U.S. reside around DC.

The term fiat currency exists for a reason. There is a reason why most of Europe is laid out like a fish on land right now. The banking institutions are now bearing out what Austrian economists have long pointed out to be true. You can stave off the market, but you cannot escape it. Eventually you have to provide something that people want if you want to exchange anything.

Moreover all the great ideas and intentions mean nothing if we can't afford it. Would it be good to have? Probably. But that doesn't change the fact that we cannot sustain said citizen welfare, military industrial complexes, corporate welfare, etc when the effective tax base is 50%. When your money becomes effectively worthless due to another crack at failed policy built around ponzi schemes and fiat currency, the market finally catches up, and the collapse is devastating.

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Posted

don't worry there are plenty of supply side bullshitters to pick up the slack

 

 

i'm a bit more diverse than just supply side man. and del covered my response. lol

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Posted

We are already struggling with paying the interest on the national debt before our credit rating was lowered. Again, the debt is a symptom of the problem. The trend is clear with the rise of the number of people that produce nothing attaining ever more power to take from those that DO produce. Making money is not the same as producing. This very fact is reflected in how the richest 7 counties out of the top 10 in the U.S. reside around DC.

The term fiat currency exists for a reason. There is a reason why most of Europe is laid out like a fish on land right now. The banking institutions are now bearing out what Austrian economists have long pointed out to be true. You can stave off the market, but you cannot escape it. Eventually you have to provide something that people want if you want to exchange anything.

Moreover all the great ideas and intentions mean nothing if we can't afford it. Would it be good to have? Probably. But that doesn't change the fact that we cannot sustain said citizen welfare, military industrial complexes, corporate welfare, etc when the effective tax base is 50%. When your money becomes effectively worthless due to another crack at failed policy built around ponzi schemes and fiat currency, the market finally catches up, and the collapse is devastating.

Trust gold. Never in a bubble.

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Posted

Trust gold. Never in a bubble.

 

Trust snark.  Never commit to an original thought

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Posted

All currency whether backed by a commodity or not is fiat money. Gold is just a shiny stone that doesn't rust. The only reason it has value is because people think it has value. If people decided gold had no value then gold would be worthless.

If you think that a dollar bill has no value please send all of your dollars to me. I will PM you my address if you want.

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Posted

One of the great ironies to me about fiat money fear, is that the people who push this narrative the most are the gold people.  I have seen at least three documentaries on the collapse of the dollar because it is fiat money and that the only safe investment is in gold.

 

Yet at the end of these things they offer to accept my "bogus" money for their "valuable" gold.  They must be the nicest people in the world to keep taking this worthless piece of paper off of my hands to give me this valuable gold out of their supply.

 

You would almost think that these people value the dollar over gold 

 

SPOILER: They do.  So they go to suckers who wear tin foil hats and tell them that about fiat money, the gold standard, growing debt, growing interest on debt, tell a couple of stories from the 19th century about Yap stones and sea shells, and then ask you to give them those "worthless" dollars to them in exchange for their gold.  Not only that, they mark up their gold in order to ensure a 40% profit on it.  So as their taking your worthless paper, they are selling you gold at 60% of the actual dollar value so you are starting with a 40% loss of exchange value.

 

And people like twylyght eat it up and feel enlightened.

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Posted

Not once have I made any mention of gold. That was you and everyone else. However it is worth noting that one cannot simply create more gold (precious metal, gemstones, land to a normal extent, etc) while one can create endless fiat currency. For whatever reason, these other things hold inherent value that holds truer form than what can quickly become an arbitrary currency. Inflation simply becomes another form of taxation that severely cripples the middle and lower classes.

Yes, marketing plays a role in driving demand as does an artificial buyer. Eventually, the market catches up if you aren't providing something of actual value. Hence the ecology is unsustainable

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Posted

The simple fact is that the scenario you are talking about is already on its way.  Its just a matter of when, not if.  There is no such thing as a system where everyone can steal from everyone else without actually producing anything.  Those that plunder are dependent on those that produce.  What you've got is unsustainable with respect to how people exist today.  The retirement age has already been elevated and it will be elevated again before you are able to retire. 

 

I'm simply telling you that we can either deal with it now and actually man up and deal with the actual problem, or you can do what a few generations have been doing for a while now and simply look to continue to kick the can down the road.

 

Picture this being said by a soviet during the Bolshevik Revolution.  Eerie how it fits so well.

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Posted

yeah once they purged everyone, restarted the government, then killed millions of peasants by forcible starvation to get the poor people under control, everything started coming up roses for them.

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Posted

 Inflation simply becomes another form of taxation that severely cripples the middle and lower classes.

 

 

Moderate inflation helps those who owe money (typically poor and middle class), but hurts those that lend it (wealthy), so I have no idea where you're getting this little moronic statement.

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Posted

I didn't really mean anything by it.  I just saw  'There is no such thing as a system where everyone can steal from everyone else without actually producing anything.'  and thought it'd have a completely different meaning in a different context.  Funny how things can be so different when you cling to ideology.  

 

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