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Would you want Noel if he dropped?


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#16 koolkatluke

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:19 PM

I think you would have to make the pick, unless someone offered you a kings ransom for him. Like 3 first round picks with no protection on them.

 

Really??? Are you serious?? The next Brandon Wright is worth 3 1st round picks?? Did you just start watching basketball??

 

This is Noel with better offensive skills.

 

 

 



#17 koolkatluke

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:24 PM

Noel has a lot of potential to become a decent center. The obvious issue is his knee, but if he returns healthy and adds some bulk, I feel he could bring his defensive talents to a team wanting to take a risk on him. Would I take him?

Maybe, but it depends on who is available. Let's say this happens:

#1 Porter, Cavs
#2 Burke, Magic
#3 Bennett, Wizards

In this scenario McLemore is still on the board and so is Noel. Now I'm a big fan of McLemore and would love us to pair him with Kemba. So for me I'd draft McLemore over Noel. Sure there is potential that we could trade back with a team like the T-Wolves for their pick (or picks) and/or Derrick Williams. Trading back might put us in a pposition to draft Oladipo, or a big like Zeller or Len. But that aside, if McLemore is available I'd take him over Noel.

If this scenario happens:

#1 McLemore, Cavs
#2 Burke, Magic
#3 Porter, Wizards

Now in this scenario I'm unsure about Bennett's ability to play at PF full time. Also while Oladipo brings immense athleticism, I am not sure I'd want to take him at #4. For me I'd probably rather take a risk on Noel in this scenario because according to reports he should come back healthy. So as long as our team does its research and that says the same, grab Noel because it would give us a potentially dominate defensive presence. Plus with Clifford's background he could be the type of player he may want.

So if Noel does fall to us, then we may take him but it depends who is available. I don't see us taking him over McLemore, if McLemore is available we'll take him or trade back with a team that wants him. But if McLemore is gone and Noel is on the board, I think we might take him over Bennett and Oladipo.

 

 

He's not a center. He's a skinny PF with no Offensive game.


 



#18 carpanfan96

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:50 PM

Really??? Are you serious?? The next Brandon Wright is worth 3 1st round picks?? Did you just start watching basketball??

 

This is Noel with better offensive skills.

 

 

 

He's not the next Brandon Wright, lol. He's a better rebounder and shot blocker by a large margin over Wright. He's also a better on ball defender. So yea, it would be have to be a heck of a trade. There's a reason he's the top rated player in this draft. 

 

For two reasons why I'd be reluctant to trade him unless it was an amazing offer. 

 

A. He's an incredible shot blocker and defender.

B. He's not going to play a ton this season, which allows the Bobcats to be bad for another season. Which means better chances at a top 2-3 pick in the loaded 2014 draft. 



#19 koolkatluke

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:10 PM

He's not the next Brandon Wright, lol. He's a better rebounder and shot blocker by a large margin over Wright. He's also a better on ball defender. So yea, it would be have to be a heck of a trade. There's a reason he's the top rated player in this draft. 

 

For two reasons why I'd be reluctant to trade him unless it was an amazing offer. 

 

A. He's an incredible shot blocker and defender.

B. He's not going to play a ton this season, which allows the Bobcats to be bad for another season. Which means better chances at a top 2-3 pick in the loaded 2014 draft. 

 

In College let's see how his 216 frame deals with grown men who will knock him around like a pool ball. Don't see him being a great Rebounder in the NBA when he can't get position.

 

1. He's the top pick because this draft sucks. Kwame Brown was a top pick the year he came out.

 

2. Your best reason is so we have a excuse to Tank!! Wow.

 

3. What we will have is a another Player who is offensively challenged. For a team that has never had a true Post scorer.

Yeah I see the logic in that.
 



#20 carpanfan96

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:37 PM

In College let's see how his 216 frame deals with grown men who will knock him around like a pool ball. Don't see him being a great Rebounder in the NBA when he can't get position.

 

1. He's the top pick because this draft sucks. Kwame Brown was a top pick the year he came out.

 

2. Your best reason is so we have a excuse to Tank!! Wow.

 

3. What we will have is a another Player who is offensively challenged. For a team that has never had a true Post scorer.

Yeah I see the logic in that.
 

 

Noel has the frame to add weight and Strength. He's got potential offensively because of his leaping and rebounding ability. This draft doesn't really suck, it's really deep and you can get starter's in the 2nd round. It just isn't top heavy. 

 

 

There's not many low post scorers in the NBA anymore. Honestly, the Heat are the best team in the NBA and they don't have a low post or high post threat on the team. There really isn't a low post scorer in this draft, Len has the potential to be. So does Noel though. 

 

Right now this is a Wing driven league that wants defensive minded big's. 

 

Tanking is just an added bonus to Noel, if he helps you land Wiggins, Parker or Randle. Then helps as a defensive anchor once one of them is one the team then he is a successful pick. 

 

 

 

Also does it matter if the teams offensively challenged if the other team is also having issues scoring and it leads to wins? 



#21 koolkatluke

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

Noel has the frame to add weight and Strength. He's got potential offensively because of his leaping and rebounding ability. This draft doesn't really suck, it's really deep and you can get starter's in the 2nd round. It just isn't top heavy. 

 

 

There's not many low post scorers in the NBA anymore. Honestly, the Heat are the best team in the NBA and they don't have a low post or high post threat on the team. There really isn't a low post scorer in this draft, Len has the potential to be. So does Noel though. 

 

Right now this is a Wing driven league that wants defensive minded big's. 

 

Tanking is just an added bonus to Noel, if he helps you land Wiggins, Parker or Randle. Then helps as a defensive anchor once one of them is one the team then he is a successful pick. 

 

 

 

Also does it matter if the teams offensively challenged if the other team is also having issues scoring and it leads to wins? 

He can't add more then 20 without losing athleticism. So what you will have is  a 230lb to 235lb player in the post. Not good. You have no clue about the human body do you??

 

1. He has the potential to be a smaller Tyson Chandler. If you call that Offensive Potential then I don't know what to tell you.

 

2. Bismack has more potential then Noel. He has a better Frame just as good defensively and a better touch on his shot. Noel is no better then Bismack which we already have.

 

3. We're not going to be that good whoever we draft. We will be in the top 3 worse records regardless. I rather have a player who plays and gets game time exp. Instead of a player sitting on the bench most of the year.

 

4. Tell that wing player thing to teams like Indy, the Grizzles, and The Spurs. 3 out of the finally 4 teams in the playoffs. Only one team can have Lebron James. There  is a better chance at getting a post player then another Lebron.

 



#22 carolina-chuck

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:14 AM

I wouldn't
 

 

Good for you. I dont really care about your opinion



#23 koolkatluke

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:19 AM

Good for you. I dont really care about your opinion

 

Yes you do.



#24 carolina-chuck

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:24 AM

Yes you do.

 

Are you Rich Cho or MJ?  No, so I dont give a fug.



#25 koolkatluke

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:33 AM

Are you Rich Cho or MJ?  No, so I dont give a fug.

 

That's 2 replies to a poster's opinion you don't "give a fug" about.



#26 carpanfan96

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:19 AM

He can't add more then 20 without losing athleticism. So what you will have is  a 230lb to 235lb player in the post. Not good. You have no clue about the human body do you??

 

1. He has the potential to be a smaller Tyson Chandler. If you call that Offensive Potential then I don't know what to tell you.

 

2. Bismack has more potential then Noel. He has a better Frame just as good defensively and a better touch on his shot. Noel is no better then Bismack which we already have.

 

3. We're not going to be that good whoever we draft. We will be in the top 3 worse records regardless. I rather have a player who plays and gets game time exp. Instead of a player sitting on the bench most of the year.

 

4. Tell that wing player thing to teams like Indy, the Grizzles, and The Spurs. 3 out of the finally 4 teams in the playoffs. Only one team can have Lebron James. There  is a better chance at getting a post player then another Lebron.

 

 

 

Check out the weight of some of the defensive stoppers in the league. They're around 230-240. Bismack has tons of potential, but he isn't as good defensively as Noel is. Noel can add 20-25 pounds and be fine, he'll be in the 230 range. Which is fine for today's NBA. 

 

If Noel is a 10-12-3-1 guy, that is 10 pts, 10 rebs, 3 blks, 1 steal, then's he's an effective big in today's NBA. All of those numbers are completely possible for Noel. 

 

You seem to think this is the NBA from 10 years ago, which it isn't. Bigs are getting shorter and leaner and more skilled outside the paint. 

 

Of course the Bobcats/Hornets aren't going to be very good this upcoming season. It's about building a team and adding pieces that fit together when you add in a star type player and a decent 2nd and 3rd option.  You add Noel and then get the potential star in the 2014 draft. Use the other two draft picks in 2014 to add another scoring option. You've got a defensive minded team that's going to make other teams struggle in the paint and driving. 

 

 

Indiana lost to the Heat because they couldn't get enough scoring from Wings when the post stopped working. 

 

The Grizzles lost to the Spurs because they didn't have enough scoring on the wings to keep up with the Spurs offense when the post game stopped working.  The Spurs offense is based largely on Parker, Leonard and Ginobili now. Duncan can work the post, but is just as effective away from the basket now. On top of that right at 70% of the Spurs scoring comes from either non PF/ C players. Their most effective scoring punch comes from Guard and Wing play. 

 

 

The final two teams are much more likely to beat you from deep then from the paint. The 2014 draft is loaded with wing players, not post players. Same for this draft as well. 

 



#27 koolkatluke

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:58 AM

Check out the weight of some of the defensive stoppers in the league. They're around 230-240. Bismack has tons of potential, but he isn't as good defensively as Noel is. Noel can add 20-25 pounds and be fine, he'll be in the 240 range. Which is fine for today's NBA. 

 

If Noel is a 10-12-3-1 guy, that is 10 pts, 10 rebs, 3 blks, 1 steal, then's he's an effective big in today's NBA. All of those numbers are completely possible for Noel. 

 

You seem to think this is the NBA from 10 years ago, which it isn't. Bigs are getting shorter and leaner and more skilled outside the paint. 

 

Of course the Bobcats/Hornets aren't going to be very good this upcoming season. It's about building a team and adding pieces that fit together when you add in a star type player and a decent 2nd and 3rd option.  You add Noel and then get the potential star in the 2014 draft. Use the other two draft picks in 2014 to add another scoring option. You've got a defensive minded team that's going to make other teams struggle in the paint and driving. 

 

 

Indiana lost to the Heat because they couldn't get enough scoring from Wings when the post stopped working. 

 

The Grizzles lost to the Spurs because they didn't have enough scoring on the wings to keep up with the Spurs offense when the post game stopped working.  The Spurs offense is based largely on Parker, Leonard and Ginobili now. Duncan can work the post, but is just as effective away from the basket now. On top of that right at 70% of the Spurs scoring comes from either non PF/ C players. Their most effective scoring punch comes from Guard and Wing play. 

 

 

The final two teams are much more likely to beat you from deep then from the paint. The 2014 draft is loaded with wing players, not post players. Same for this draft as well. 

 

No he can't you don't know poo about the human body. He will lose explosiveness and have leg problems if he add much more then 15 more pounds to that frame.

He has the same body type as Durrant, Brandon Wright, Tyson Chandler. Not much weight can be added to his frame without problems. This isn't create a player feature on 2K. You can't have a Skinny player weight 245 to 250 pounds. This is simple human anatomy.

 

1. Best Defensive Bigmen

Marc Gasol -7'1 265

Tyson Chandler - 7'1 240

Serge Ibaka -6'10 235

Jokaim Noah  6'11 232

Tim Duncan - 6'11 255

Dwight Howard - 6'11 265

Larry Sander - 6'11-235

Roy Hibbert - 7'2 - 280

Noel - 6'10 215

 

2. Grizzles lost because they are young but they were still in the final four.

 

3. Indy lost for the same reason but again having a post up scorer made them better then all but 1 team in the east.

 

4. The Spurs don't win without Duncan and Splitter stop Z-BO and rebounding and get easy points in the post. No team can win just jump shooting from the wings.

 

Last we already have a kid developing into a defensive force we need to add a Post scorer to go with him. Noel is 3-4 years before having a serviceable offensive game and he will never be a back to the basket player. Plain and simple.

 



#28 carpanfan96

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:54 AM

No he can't you don't know poo about the human body. He will lose explosiveness and have leg problems if he add much more then 15 more pounds to that frame.

He has the same body type as Durrant, Brandon Wright, Tyson Chandler. Not much weight can be added to his frame without problems. This isn't create a player feature on 2K. You can't have a Skinny player weight 245 to 250 pounds. This is simple human anatomy.

 

1. Best Defensive Bigmen

Marc Gasol -7'1 265

Tyson Chandler - 7'1 240

Serge Ibaka -6'10 235

Jokaim Noah  6'11 232

Tim Duncan - 6'11 255

Dwight Howard - 6'11 265

Larry Sander - 6'11-235

Roy Hibbert - 7'2 - 280

Noel - 6'10 215

 

2. Grizzles lost because they are young but they were still in the final four.

 

3. Indy lost for the same reason but again having a post up scorer made them better then all but 1 team in the east.

 

4. The Spurs don't win without Duncan and Splitter stop Z-BO and rebounding and get easy points in the post. No team can win just jump shooting from the wings.

 

Last we already have a kid developing into a defensive force we need to add a Post scorer to go with him. Noel is 3-4 years before having a serviceable offensive game and he will never be a back to the basket player. Plain and simple.
 

 

 

You used Durant as an example of his body type.

 

Durant in College weighed in at 215, he now weighs in at 235. He's added 20 pounds and is just as explosive, if not more so. He's a better finisher at the rim because of it too.

 

Wright was already filled out when he was in college and had maxed his frame. The same is not the case for Noel. 

 

Also Noel weighs 206, not 215. He has plenty of room to grow. He can get to 220-230 easily and still be the quickest PF/C in the NBA. He's got freakish speed, quickness and reaction/timing ability. <- That's why he's the #1 ranked prospect. It's not about weight though, it's about strength and skill set. The NBA is getting smaller weight wise and more finesse in nature. 

 

 

As for Noel being a finisher and back to the basket guy, he already has the ability to finish with both hands at the basket and with a mini jump hook. He just lacks consistency. That comes with age and repetition. He's 18, he's going to be 27 after his first contract and RFA contract are up.   I'll admit he would be a big risk though because of his age, developmental time and the injury concern. however every single player in this draft has super major question marks. He's just got the fewest of the bunch. 

 

The Grizzles lost because they couldn't get into the post effectively and had no Wing players to take the pressure off of the inside game. Same for the Pacers, The games the Pacer's won they had someone step up outside and make shots to keep the heat from crashing in around West and Hibbert. I never said the Spurs relied on just jump shots, I said they relied on wing and guard players for their scoring punch and that's true. 

 

 

Of course the Bobcats are developing a defensive stopper, he's still really young and still just like a new draft pick each year. He's only 20, still younger then most of the kids that are in the draft. Same goes with MKG, just 20 years old. 

 

They have a few years before they reach potential, 2-3 years to be exact. Why not take a player just as young that can develop along with them? If it doesn't work out, then no harm really. The Bobcats won't know anything about MKG or Bismack for another 2-3 years, add one more to that mix. Make it a defensive juggernaut, add the scoring in 2014 via Randle, Parker or Wiggins. Add in a FA or Two to fill out the Roster and you've got a team full of defensive stoppers, go all out guys with a potential all star PG in Kemba, and a superstar type player in Randle/Wiggins/Parker. Add in some scoring via FA and you've got a team you can keep together for 7-8 years that formidable in the paint both scoring and defensively. 



#29 koolkatluke

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:46 PM

You used Durant as an example of his body type.

 

Durant in College weighed in at 215, he now weighs in at 235. He's added 20 pounds and is just as explosive, if not more so. He's a better finisher at the rim because of it too.

 

Wright was already filled out when he was in college and had maxed his frame. The same is not the case for Noel. 

 

Also Noel weighs 206, not 215. He has plenty of room to grow. He can get to 220-230 easily and still be the quickest PF/C in the NBA. He's got freakish speed, quickness and reaction/timing ability. <- That's why he's the #1 ranked prospect. It's not about weight though, it's about strength and skill set. The NBA is getting smaller weight wise and more finesse in nature. 

 

 

As for Noel being a finisher and back to the basket guy, he already has the ability to finish with both hands at the basket and with a mini jump hook. He just lacks consistency. That comes with age and repetition. He's 18, he's going to be 27 after his first contract and RFA contract are up.   I'll admit he would be a big risk though because of his age, developmental time and the injury concern. however every single player in this draft has super major question marks. He's just got the fewest of the bunch. 

 

The Grizzles lost because they couldn't get into the post effectively and had no Wing players to take the pressure off of the inside game. Same for the Pacers, The games the Pacer's won they had someone step up outside and make shots to keep the heat from crashing in around West and Hibbert. I never said the Spurs relied on just jump shots, I said they relied on wing and guard players for their scoring punch and that's true. 

 

 

Of course the Bobcats are developing a defensive stopper, he's still really young and still just like a new draft pick each year. He's only 20, still younger then most of the kids that are in the draft. Same goes with MKG, just 20 years old. 

 

They have a few years before they reach potential, 2-3 years to be exact. Why not take a player just as young that can develop along with them? If it doesn't work out, then no harm really. The Bobcats won't know anything about MKG or Bismack for another 2-3 years, add one more to that mix. Make it a defensive juggernaut, add the scoring in 2014 via Randle, Parker or Wiggins. Add in a FA or Two to fill out the Roster and you've got a team full of defensive stoppers, go all out guys with a potential all star PG in Kemba, and a superstar type player in Randle/Wiggins/Parker. Add in some scoring via FA and you've got a team you can keep together for 7-8 years that formidable in the paint both scoring and defensively. 

 

Big difference Durant Plays the 3 and doesn't have to be in the inside to make a impact.

 

Noel with the same body type has to be in the inside.

 

The quickest PF/C with no offensive game no handles and can't hold his ground in the post. Yes that sounds like a good idea to draft. Again K Brown was the top prospect in a draft before so was Michael Oiakandi. So that doesn't mean poo.

 

The Grizzles the Spurs and Indy are there because they have Post scoring. You can say they lost but at least they were in the last 4 standing.

 

The Knicks have great wings where are they now?

 

The Nuggets have good Wing players and Depth where are they?

 

Golden State has Good wing players but they lost because their best inside player got hurt.

 

Sooner or later this team has to invest in a offensive post player. We have went the route of Defensive 4/5 with little to no Offensive game at all. It didn't work.

 

We have invested enough on defense for now. We need to invest on Scoring and Rebounding now.

 

 

I'm already going to rub your face in your Patterson breakdown/love. This will be the 2nd player you've backed that won't be as good as you think.
 



#30 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:56 AM

So we are arguing that a 205 lb Raw center with a bad knee injury is worth going all in for with a top 4 pick? Have we not learned from history?

His injury futher hampers his offensive development. He blew out his knee at 205 add 20 lbs to him?!

You are drafting (if healthy) a situational shot blocker and hopefully a Brandon Wright* (at best!)

*Brandon Wright is ok at best..10 minutes a game guy


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