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The Last of Us...

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Proudiddy    9,487

 

If the game had given you the option to walk away at the end, or save Ellie, and you choose to walk away, I think you missed the point.

 

I think the repetitive argument is about the worst and most over used gaming criticism ever. But then again, I didn't have to ask for help on perfectly good level design during my super speed run of the game

What are you trying to say here?

 

Referring to me personally?

 

 

As far as the similar arguments all of you pro-The Last of Us guys are making, my point remains the same. 

 

After you've taken the journey that you have with Ellie and saw all that you have seen, how could you NOT want to explore the possibility of a cure?  The question of how it would be administered, would it be exploited, etc. could all be worked out along the way.  So, how did you guys feel about the Will Smith version of I Am Legend?  What about World War Z.  It's the same concept, the difference is, in this game, you are put in the driver's seat...  Well, at least until it matters the most.

 

As I said, it wasn't just that you didn't allow Ellie to serve as a potential cure and fix-all for humanity, it was the brutality and mindlessness in which it was done.  BY DESIGN, the developers make you kill the brain surgeon that was about to operate on Ellie.  The dude pulled a scalpel on you, lol...  You've fought off infected and humans alike, armed with much more, and you couldn't just let the brain surgeon off with a non-fatal shot, or perhaps a knockout punch?  It was ridiculous. 

 

It seems like the difference between our views is that those of you in favor of the ending feel like it was pointless to let her die because there was no guarantee that she would provide the cure, while I feel it was pointless to not attempt to find a cure considering all of the good it could do IF they indeed could develop one from her.

 

As you have stated, as did I previously, the world they were living in was unbearable.  So, why not attempt to salvage it?  Furthermore, Ellie stated at the end that she wanted to be the cure and recounted all of the people she lost along the way because there wasn't one...  So, Joel selfishly went against her wishes and then lied to her about it.  How is that a great ending?  Again, what are they going to do with their newfound father/daughter relationship?  Go camping in the wilderness?  Go out to see a movie?  Register her for a youth league soccer?  LOL.  NO.  Without a cure, they will continue to fight for their lives everyday and FOR WHAT?  For nothing.  What is the likelihood of humanity continuing to survive in those conditions? 

 

Without attempting to find a cure, the chance is an eventual zero.

 

By attempting to find a cure, the chance is far greater than that.

 

But, by not allowing Ellie to be sacrificed for the greater good, you're living for the moment, just as you have been since the game started.  There is no future to plan for.  There is no hope. 

 

Many of you are right - humans are out of control in this game and are the greatest enemy.  But, you're basically saying, what's the point of saving them?  They're evil and worthless?  "People will still be shot, raped, stolen from, etc."  Well, how do you feel about the current state of things in reality?  No one should bother with trying to change things for the greater good because society is already ruined?  LOL...

 

Again, I don't mean any offense to anyone who enjoyed the game, as Seamonk said, I discovered this linear story-based genre IS NOT for me.

 

 

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Miaoww    17

The thing is it's not an RPG.

 

You're playing as Joel, not yourself. That was Joel's choice, like it or loathe it.

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88 Bronco    1,303

Well

The way I see it society has already broken down. Even if she could provide a cure, it's too little too late. I also think that people like Ellie will spring up more as the human race evolves in response to the threat of the infection. If I was in Joel's shoes, I can't say I would have done anything different. It's easy to say one life is worth potentially saving millions when you aren't attached to that one life.

  • Pie 1

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Proudiddy    9,487

Well

The way I see it society has already broken down. Even if she could provide a cure, it's too little too late. I also think that people like Ellie will spring up more as the human race evolves in response to the threat of the infection. If I was in Joel's shoes, I can't say I would have done anything different. It's easy to say one life is worth potentially saving millions when you aren't attached to that one life.

Good points Bronco, I guess I just don't like the fatalistic mentality needed to accept the idea that it's "too little, too late" in this scenario.  If that is indeed the line of thought, then the ending is acceptable.  I just didn't want to accept that this would be IT for mankind and Ellie was the hope of saving it.  Although I pondered it and figured that there was certainly others out there with the same immunity to the infection as Ellie, I hadn't considered that more would become prevalent as a genetic response for survival in future children - so, EXCELLENT point.  Perhaps, they would be the hope at that point, as they would just have to survive and reproduce to not only live, but perhaps strengthen man's chance at winning out against the infection.  I would've loved that, if the possibility would've been explored at the end but, because it wasn't, I felt like that was IT for the human race. 

 

In the story they presented, it came off as the only hope was to get a vaccine developed from someone like Ellie (with immunity), which would require skilled doctors and medical personnel - a person like Joel killed at the end, lol...  So, that was why I didn't care for that particular event.  I was just expressing my disappointment after beating the game and seeing that pretty much everywhere I read a review on it, people thought it was virtually flawless.  I don't expect everyone, or anyone for that matter, to agree with me.  I just didn't like the finality of the ending and the lack of hope it provided.

 

Definitely, cool thoughts going forward though.  Hopefully they implement some of that in the sequel and give it a twist for the better.

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88 Bronco    1,303

Good points Bronco, I guess I just don't like the fatalistic mentality needed to accept the idea that it's "too little, too late" in this scenario.  If that is indeed the line of thought, then the ending is acceptable.  I just didn't want to accept that this would be IT for mankind and Ellie was the hope of saving it.  Although I pondered it and figured that there was certainly others out there with the same immunity to the infection as Ellie, I hadn't considered that more would become prevalent as a genetic response for survival in future children - so, EXCELLENT point.  Perhaps, they would be the hope at that point, as they would just have to survive and reproduce to not only live, but perhaps strengthen man's chance at winning out against the infection.  I would've loved that, if the possibility would've been explored at the end but, because it wasn't, I felt like that was IT for the human race. 

 

In the story they presented, it came off as the only hope was to get a vaccine developed from someone like Ellie (with immunity), which would require skilled doctors and medical personnel - a person like Joel killed at the end, lol...  So, that was why I didn't care for that particular event.  I was just expressing my disappointment after beating the game and seeing that pretty much everywhere I read a review on it, people thought it was virtually flawless.  I don't expect everyone, or anyone for that matter, to agree with me.  I just didn't like the finality of the ending and the lack of hope it provided.

 

Definitely, cool thoughts going forward though.  Hopefully they implement some of that in the sequel and give it a twist for the better.

Based on reactions, I think Ellie knew Joel lied to her, but she appreciated the loyalty and effort. The thing I liked most about the ending is that it wasn't the cliche happy ending that we are spoon feed. Nothing was done for the greater good. Someone made a decision that seemed like a decision most people would make.

I am scared of the idea of a sequel to this game. The ending was good enough to give the player closure without constraining them to a precise ending.

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Joscott    200

What are you trying to say here?

Referring to me personally?

As far as the similar arguments all of you pro-The Last of Us guys are making, my point remains the same.

After you've taken the journey that you have with Ellie and saw all that you have seen, how could you NOT want to explore the possibility of a cure? The question of how it would be administered, would it be exploited, etc. could all be worked out along the way. So, how did you guys feel about the Will Smith version of I Am Legend? What about World War Z. It's the same concept, the difference is, in this game, you are put in the driver's seat... Well, at least until it matters the most.

As I said, it wasn't just that you didn't allow Ellie to serve as a potential cure and fix-all for humanity, it was the brutality and mindlessness in which it was done. BY DESIGN, the developers make you kill the brain surgeon that was about to operate on Ellie. The dude pulled a scalpel on you, lol... You've fought off infected and humans alike, armed with much more, and you couldn't just let the brain surgeon off with a non-fatal shot, or perhaps a knockout punch? It was ridiculous.

It seems like the difference between our views is that those of you in favor of the ending feel like it was pointless to let her die because there was no guarantee that she would provide the cure, while I feel it was pointless to not attempt to find a cure considering all of the good it could do IF they indeed could develop one from her.

As you have stated, as did I previously, the world they were living in was unbearable. So, why not attempt to salvage it? Furthermore, Ellie stated at the end that she wanted to be the cure and recounted all of the people she lost along the way because there wasn't one... So, Joel selfishly went against her wishes and then lied to her about it. How is that a great ending? Again, what are they going to do with their newfound father/daughter relationship? Go camping in the wilderness? Go out to see a movie? Register her for a youth league soccer? LOL. NO. Without a cure, they will continue to fight for their lives everyday and FOR WHAT? For nothing. What is the likelihood of humanity continuing to survive in those conditions?

Without attempting to find a cure, the chance is an eventual zero.

By attempting to find a cure, the chance is far greater than that.

But, by not allowing Ellie to be sacrificed for the greater good, you're living for the moment, just as you have been since the game started. There is no future to plan for. There is no hope.

Many of you are right - humans are out of control in this game and are the greatest enemy. But, you're basically saying, what's the point of saving them? They're evil and worthless? "People will still be shot, raped, stolen from, etc." Well, how do you feel about the current state of things in reality? No one should bother with trying to change things for the greater good because society is already ruined? LOL...

Again, I don't mean any offense to anyone who enjoyed the game, as Seamonk said, I discovered this linear story-based genre IS NOT for me.

I'm trying to say that it came off to me that you were just trying to beat the game and I think that's a big part of why our experiences differed. Each time I would check the thread you had posted about something you couldn't figure out, but for me, I wanted to explore every nook and find the secrets. It's not meant to be an insult, just that we went about it different ways and I think in the end the connection to the story was different.

For me, I loved I Am Legend until the very end. It captured the atmosphere well but killed it with the way it ended. I love the book, one of my favorites, and the end of the movie does it absolutely no justice. It has a very powerful conclusion that is no where near a happy Disney ending, but that's ok because it provides a type of closure that keeps you thinking. It is more of a closer comparison to Last of Us.

You can say Joel killed the last remaining brain surgeon as much as you can say Ellie is the only person immune. I guess I just never held the fireflys to that high of a standard. There are no heroes and are guilty of the same actions Joel has committed. Everyone is concerned about their interest and are not ready to listen to anyone else. At endgame they even stop Joel from rescuing her and they take her straight to surgery without so much as letting her know the consequences. "He tells me that on this journey, you either hang on to your morals and die or do whatever it takes to survive." This is the world now.

I think the biggest difference in our views was that I was able to connect with Ellie and I understood who Joel was and how he came to be. Its not an ending that makes me feel happy or good about the fate of that world, but its one that got me thinking and the fact that we can have this discussion speaks volumes. I don't think its selfish to not regret Joel's decision and it actually felt right for me.

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SuperXMSat    0

Good points Bronco, I guess I just don't like the fatalistic mentality needed to accept the idea that it's "too little, too late" in this scenario.  If that is indeed the line of thought, then the ending is acceptable.  I just didn't want to accept that this would be IT for mankind and Ellie was the hope of saving it.  Although I pondered it and figured that there was certainly others out there with the same immunity to the infection as Ellie, I hadn't considered that more would become prevalent as a genetic response for survival in future children - so, EXCELLENT point.  Perhaps, they would be the hope at that point, as they would just have to survive and reproduce to not only live, but perhaps strengthen man's chance at winning out against the infection.  I would've loved that, if the possibility would've been explored at the end but, because it wasn't, I felt like that was IT for the human race.

 

In the story they presented, it came off as the only hope was to get a vaccine developed from someone like Ellie (with immunity), which would require skilled doctors and medical personnel - a person like Joel killed at the end, lol...  So, that was why I didn't care for that particular event.  I was just expressing my disappointment after beating the game and seeing that pretty much everywhere I read a review on it, people thought it was virtually flawless.  I don't expect everyone, or anyone for that matter, to agree with me.  I just didn't like the finality of the ending and the lack of hope it provided.

 

Definitely, cool thoughts going forward though.  Hopefully they implement some of that in the sequel and give it a twist for the better.

 

That's one of my favorite motifs of the game. The fact that throughout the entire game you see all these abandoned areas/cities in an post-apocolyptic setting, yet everything looks beautiful compared to a lot of other post-apocolyptic settings. Many post-apocolyptic settings would choose a brown or gray palette of colors, whereas The Last of Us has a really colorful vibrant palette. You see foliage growing through cracks of sidewalks and buildings. That followed with the giraffe scene was truly something awesome in my eyes. The idea that "Nature finds a way" to survive (also a nod to Jurassic Park). And really with a theme like that, it is entirely the point that you just have to do what is necessary to survive (which in Joel's mind is being around Ellie).

 

I also enjoyed that the story isn't always so upfront. It really leaves a lot to the player to decide what exactly is going on in certain people's minds. You often times have a clue, but there's never any true certainty to what you believe to be the case. While I realize there's never going to be something (art-  or entertainment-wise) that every single person while enjoy, I do believe that there should be something appreciated by everyone about the game and its ending.

 

Also, I REALLY hope they don't make a sequel....I loved the world Naughty Dog built but something about a sequel feels like it would cheapen my experience with this game....even if they introduce new characters to follow.

These are my 2 cents on some of the topics discussed

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ncsu12engr    338

My thoughts on the ending.

 

After spending many hours with Joel and Ellie I feel like this ending is the only logical ending. If you look at it from Joel's perspective it makes perfect sense. This whole thing starts with him losing his daughter unnecessarily. He doesn't want to go through that again, so he fights for her. He wants to watch Ellie grow up and teach her some of the things he never got a chance to teach Sarah. Is it the selfish choice? Of course it is, but this is Joel and he has been going through this for 20 years, and finally when he meets someone he truly cares about you expect him to just let her die?

 

 

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Captroop    2,550

After all she did to survive, Ellie's life was worth more than the sum of humanity. She deserves life, and a full life more than anyone else and everyone else.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

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Bronn    4,339

I borrowed this from a friend and played for a while...

I didn't really like that it wasn't a true open world and I couldn't explore things...

The concept was pretty cool and all, and it was fun to an extent... I just didn't feel really free to do what I wanted within the game...

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Bronn    4,339

It wasn't a sandbox style game

 

Yeah I know now but I was under the impression that it was... Oh well... I guess I got spoiled by Fallout, Oblivion, and LOTRO or w/e...

 

I mean, the game was pretty fun and all, I just guess it wasn't what I expected so it was kinda disappointing.

  • Pie 1

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