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ECUPantherFan

ECU plans to expand stadium to 60,000 by 2016

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No I agree, ECU is in a better place then they were (at least for football)  At first I thought it was a bit dangerous for the school with the uncertainty that was in the Big East at the time. Now that Uconn, Cinci, USF, UCF and Houston are all staying/joined the conference should be solid throughout most sports. 

 

How do you feel the school will do? I feel that ECU will be ok in football, they need to catch up to Cinci and Houston who will be the top 2 IMO. ECU has been around the same level as most of the other programs in recent years. I haven't followed ECU in a couple yrs since Lance Lewis Graduated (friend of mine) I believe Hardy is still there and I really think he is a solid player.

 

Problem is can ECU be competitive in other sports? I feel that is where the move will hurt the most.

 

I am a Charlotte alumni so I am very excited for the program we are starting. We are already signing players of 3* caliber on the regular and really getting a lot of local commitments which I feel is very important. Charlotte is a very strong area for High School football in the state and if we can dictate keeping local talent I see us being very strong. We have added over 20 transfers from Div 1A schools and some Priority Juco players. I really think we can come into Conference USA and contend year in and out. I hope 5-10 yrs down the road we can join the American Conference and create a true rivalry with ECU. 

 

As far as football, I disagree about Houston being in the top 2 in the American.  ECU consistantly beats Houston in every sport, including football.  (Beat them 48-28 last year.)

 

We'll contend for the American football title right away, especially considering Shane Carden (QB) will be a senior in our first season in the AAC.  He's breaking every ECU passing record like it's nothing.  Coach Ruff has seriously increased ECU's football recruiting.  We're getting kids we've never had a shot at before.  With his recruiting ability, and adding teams like UCONN, USF, Cincy, etc to the schedule, we'll have no issue sustaining that level of recruiting.

 

Baseball... we should own the AAC in baseball.  We missed the NCAA Tournament this season (which is extremely rare) but are consistantly hanging around the top 25 every season. 

 

Basketball... we just had the best basketball season in ECU history.  Jeff Lebo is a superb coach.  We received a bye for the first round of the C-USA Tournament for the first time ever.  We won the CollegeInsiders.com Tournament (CIT) for our first EVER postseason tournament championship.  Recruiting in basketball is light-years ahead of where we were 5 years ago.  We're almost finished building a $15 Million basketball practice facility, which has recruits excited.  ECU basketball is heading in the right direction.  Having teams like UCONN and Cincy coming to Minges Coliseum will give ECU a HUGE shot of life into the basketball program.

 

ECU will do well across the board in this new conference, I am confident.  I just hope the league stays together... I'm afraid when the Big 5 conferences decide to expand again, UCONN, USF, & Cincy are the first 3 gone.

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In football Houston has been more consistent then ECU for last decade: 

 

Houston   75 wins 53 losses 7 bowl appearances

 

ECU         60 wins 65 losses 5 bowl appearances  

 

NFL: Neither team has really had much impact on NFL roster... highlights are

Chris Johnson (ECU) Garrard (ECU) Lival Joseph (ECU)

Kevin Kolb (Houston) Donnie Avery (Houston) DJ Hayden (Houston)

 

Houston lost Sumlin to Texas A&M which hurt the program, ECU was better last year with 8-4 compared to 5-7 for Houston

 

Overall records for last decade hurt ECU with dismal yrs in 2003 and 2004 where they combined for 3 wins in 2 yrs.The rest was fairly comparable except Houston's 13-1 record in 2011 

 

Couldn't find a head to head for teams. 

 

To be honest it was a lot closer then I had expected. Houston gets more publicity recently with a run on good QB's with Kolb, Keenum and now Piland. Everything else came out very close in the last 5 yrs as far as football is concerned. 

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In football Houston has been more consistent then ECU for last decade: 

 

Houston   75 wins 53 losses 7 bowl appearances

 

ECU         60 wins 65 losses 5 bowl appearances  

 

NFL: Neither team has really had much impact on NFL roster... highlights are

Chris Johnson (ECU) Garrard (ECU) Lival Joseph (ECU)

Kevin Kolb (Houston) Donnie Avery (Houston) DJ Hayden (Houston)

 

Houston lost Sumlin to Texas A&M which hurt the program, ECU was better last year with 8-4 compared to 5-7 for Houston

 

Overall records for last decade hurt ECU with dismal yrs in 2003 and 2004 where they combined for 3 wins in 2 yrs.The rest was fairly comparable except Houston's 13-1 record in 2011 

 

Couldn't find a head to head for teams. 

 

To be honest it was a lot closer then I had expected. Houston gets more publicity recently with a run on good QB's with Kolb, Keenum and now Piland. Everything else came out very close in the last 5 yrs as far as football is concerned. 

 

http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/hou/ec.shtml

ECU is 7-5 in football against Houston.

 

As far as ECU vs. Houston players in the NFL, they were tied 14-14 until David Garrard's recent retirement gave the edge to Houston 14-13, though I'd give the slight edge to ECU in terms of quality with 3 recent pro bowlers in Garrard and CJ2K as well as 3x Pro Bowl FB Vonta Leach to Houston's none.

 

While I will tell you that, like you mentioned, the 2 John Thompson seasons set ECU football back 2-3 years and it took a while to bounce back. Those were some painful seasons, but were necessary as they caused a shakeup in the entire staff of the Athletic Dpt. that led to Terry Holland (who us Pirates believe is the second coming of Jesus) being hired as AD. Holland made gold out of sh*t and turned ECU into a respectable athletic program with his coaching hires and donor programs in a very short time. In fact, here's a bad ass video featuring Terry Holland:

 

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I'm not really sure I agree that the AAC is a step up for ECU football. It is a step up from what CUSA has become absolutely, but it isn't really much of a step up from where they used to be.

 

The AAC has some really pathetic football programs. Tulane, Temple, and Memphis are all terrible. UCONN doesn't have a very good history either. They've had basically one good season and they are a big part of the reason that the 5 power conferences planned to exclude the Big East from the BCS. The year UCONN got the auto-bid to a BCS game with a mediocre team pissed off the other power programs that felt they had programs far more deserving. USF has never had much success either. They had a big money backer that helped them get into the Big East with a new football program. They didn't earn it. They bought their way in. They've had one good really good season and a lot of mediocrity.

 

Cincy is a nice program, but far from stellar. They are also probably the most likely program to leave in the near future. Tulsa is a nice program too, but hard to say if it is sustainable long term.

 

I think Houston and ECU definitely have the most football potential long term in the AAC, but they're going to have to do it on their own and not rely on the conference to help them along. If the Big XII ever decides to go to 14 like the other conferences, I think Houston and Cincy are both very possible and likely candidates to go. Two from the MWC are also likely to get called up.

 

The networks have spoken and they deemed that the AAC's entire yearly television contract was worth less than what even the worst power conference teams are worth on their own in a couple of years.

 

Basketball in the AAC should be pretty good. I'll take a wait and see approach to see how ECU's program performs. I keep seeing ECU fans saying the teams in the conference will help them generate interest, but the AAC is still not nearly as good as the original CUSA that ECU played in and the conference did nothing to help them then. I'm not sold on Lebo. Sure he's a better coach that what ECU has had in the past, but he has questionable rotations. Two years ago he didn't play Kemp enough and ECU suffered. Last year he didn't play Akeem Richmond enough and ECU suffered before injuries finally forced him to start Richmond and he excelled and helped carry ECU to the CIT championship.

 

ECU has lost Kemp, Paul, and Sampson from last years team. That is A LOT to make up for. I think this year will be very telling of Jeff Lebo's capabilities. When you have a basketball history as pathetic as ECU's, one down year erases all the strides you've made in the last couple seasons.

 

I like ECU and wish them well. Their football will continue to do its thing or even improve (although I'm not a huge Ruffin McNeill fan), baseball will continue to be a consistent top 30 program, but I'm not sold on basketball making a leap.

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I'm not really sure I agree that the AAC is a step up for ECU football. It is a step up from what CUSA has become absolutely, but it isn't really much of a step up from where they used to be.

 

The AAC has some really pathetic football programs. Tulane, Temple, and Memphis are all terrible. UCONN doesn't have a very good history either. They've had basically one good season and they are a big part of the reason that the 5 power conferences planned to exclude the Big East from the BCS. The year UCONN got the auto-bid to a BCS game with a mediocre team pissed off the other power programs that felt they had programs far more deserving. USF has never had much success either. They had a big money backer that helped them get into the Big East with a new football program. They didn't earn it. They bought their way in. They've had one good really good season and a lot of mediocrity.

 

Cincy is a nice program, but far from stellar. They are also probably the most likely program to leave in the near future. Tulsa is a nice program too, but hard to say if it is sustainable long term.

 

I think Houston and ECU definitely have the most football potential long term in the AAC, but they're going to have to do it on their own and not rely on the conference to help them along. If the Big XII ever decides to go to 14 like the other conferences, I think Houston and Cincy are both very possible and likely candidates to go. Two from the MWC are also likely to get called up.

 

The networks have spoken and they deemed that the AAC's entire yearly television contract was worth less than what even the worst power conference teams are worth on their own in a couple of years.

 

Basketball in the AAC should be pretty good. I'll take a wait and see approach to see how ECU's program performs. I keep seeing ECU fans saying the teams in the conference will help them generate interest, but the AAC is still not nearly as good as the original CUSA that ECU played in and the conference did nothing to help them then. I'm not sold on Lebo. Sure he's a better coach that what ECU has had in the past, but he has questionable rotations. Two years ago he didn't play Kemp enough and ECU suffered. Last year he didn't play Akeem Richmond enough and ECU suffered before injuries finally forced him to start Richmond and he excelled and helped carry ECU to the CIT championship.

 

ECU has lost Kemp, Paul, and Sampson from last years team. That is A LOT to make up for. I think this year will be very telling of Jeff Lebo's capabilities. When you have a basketball history as pathetic as ECU's, one down year erases all the strides you've made in the last couple seasons.

 

I like ECU and wish them well. Their football will continue to do its thing or even improve (although I'm not a huge Ruffin McNeill fan), baseball will continue to be a consistent top 30 program, but I'm not sold on basketball making a leap.

 

1. Cincy, Tulsa, Central Florida, South Florida, ECU, SMU, UConn, and Houston all are very talented and growing football programs. Though I agree that The American isn't exactly the bees knees, it will absolutely be better than CUSA of the past few years. I'm sorry but I don't know where you're coming from with that one. Why are you saying that the CUSA of the past is better than the American which will essentially be CUSA's best programs plus UConn and Cincinatti. That makes no sense.

 

2. As far as basketball, Richmond is a defensive liability and a streaky shooter and I don't blame Lebo at all for playing PRC who is a great defender. I think next season Lebo will probably extend Richmond's minutes as he has surely matured as a player but when the season started he didn't deserve more than 20 minutes a game. Maurice Kemp was a skinny slasher with no shooting stroke and a poor FT shooter when he came to the program, Lebo developed him the right way over time. He had to put on weight and improve his shooting before playing big minutes (which he did). In his Freshman-Sophomore form he was a role player. You're point of the loss of Kemp/Paul/Sampson are good, but Lebo has recruited big bodies that should help, and the transfer of Terry Whisnant, a 6'3" PG former starter from Florida State who was a 4 star recruit coming out of high school ought to help just a bit. Kemp is a big loss, but I think Ty Armstrong will suprise and impress a lot of people as a #1 scoring option. Make no mistake, saying your not sold on Lebo means you really may not understand how bad this program truly historically has been. He's a damn good coach and he's all in on ECU. And he's recruited well too.

 

3. You mentioned something about The American's TV Contract. I don't care how much it's worth compared to any of the Big 5 it just isn't worth talking about. C-USA's TV contract is worth half of The American's. That's the reason that this move is important. Money. Double. The. Money. More money for athletic programs.

 

4. Not liking Ruffin McNeill is straight up weird, but I'm going to put it on you just not following the program closely. ECU Alum that lives and dies by this program. The guy is in love with Greenville and ECU, and he's a terrific recruiter with tremendous respect and notoriety across the country. If you don't like him, you don't like ECU.

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1. Cincy, Tulsa, Central Florida, South Florida, ECU, SMU, UConn, and Houston all are very talented and growing football programs. Though I agree that The American isn't exactly the bees knees, it will absolutely be better than CUSA of the past few years. I'm sorry but I don't know where you're coming from with that one. Why are you saying that the CUSA of the past is better than the American which will essentially be CUSA's best programs plus UConn and Cincinatti. That makes no sense.

 

2. As far as basketball, Richmond is a defensive liability and a streaky shooter and I don't blame Lebo at all for playing PRC who is a great defender. I think next season Lebo will probably extend Richmond's minutes as he has surely matured as a player but when the season started he didn't deserve more than 20 minutes a game. Maurice Kemp was a skinny slasher with no shooting stroke and a poor FT shooter when he came to the program, Lebo developed him the right way over time. He had to put on weight and improve his shooting before playing big minutes (which he did). In his Freshman-Sophomore form he was a role player. You're point of the loss of Kemp/Paul/Sampson are good, but Lebo has recruited big bodies that should help, and the transfer of Terry Whisnant, a 6'3" PG former starter from Florida State who was a 4 star recruit coming out of high school ought to help just a bit. Kemp is a big loss, but I think Ty Armstrong will suprise and impress a lot of people as a #1 scoring option. Make no mistake, saying your not sold on Lebo means you really may not understand how bad this program truly historically has been. He's a damn good coach and he's all in on ECU. And he's recruited well too.

 

3. You mentioned something about The American's TV Contract. I don't care how much it's worth compared to anyone else. C-USA's TV contract is worth half of The American's. That's the reason that this move is important. Money. Double. The. Money. More money for athletic programs.

4. Not liking Ruffin McNeill is straight up weird, but I'm going to put it on you just not knowing anything about him. ECU Alum that lives and dies by this program. The guy is in love with Greenville and ECU, and he's a terrific recruiter with tremendous respect and notoriety across the country. If you don't like him, you don't like ECU.

  1. Cinci was a better program in CUSA v1 than it is today. The basketball at Cinci is a shell of what it was under Bob Huggins. It isn't a perennial top 10 program anymore. Marquette is no longer there. Louisville is no longer there.  There is some talent in the AAC, but there aren't any consistent powers. People like to say any program that has had some recent success a growing program, but in reality, pretty much all the programs in the AAC are going to be up and down. They'll have their magical years and they'll have their normal years where they're neither good nor bad. And for schools like Tulane, Temple, UCONN, and Memphis, being bad is pretty regular on the football field. Everyone else falls solidly in the mediocre category. The best program in the AAC is Cinci and they're pleading to get out of the conference. They will when WVU finally cries loud enough and gets the Big XII to add a travel partner for them.
  2. I'm well aware of Richmond's talents and liabilities, but his offensive talents far outweighed his defensive liabilities. I've watched Richmond for years, even back when he was at Rhode Island and even a bit in HS. ECU had a ridiculously good +/- when he was on the floor. The new players you are talking about are freshmen, hard to rely on them to contribute much immediately. With Bryant Stith as the new assistant at Old Dominion, I wouldn't really count on keeping Stith all four years anyway. Whisnant was a great pickup, but he can't play for you this year. ECU has a chance to be really bad this year, taking them back to square one because they have no basketball history to rely on.
  3. The TV contract isn't double and more than anything it doesn't get the AAC much exposure because you're about the 4th or 5th option on ESPN. CUSA teams get $1.2 million a year ($1 million a year after Charlotte and ODU join for football) compared to $1.8 in the AAC, but our contract is with Fox Sports and will have pretty good treatment on the new Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 channels in prime time. I don't really count on CUSA maintaining such great placement after a few years when the contract expires and Fox has the option to renegotiate things, but we're sitting well for the next 3 years (and the AAC defectors are responsible for making up any difference in television contract value for an additional 2). Making an extra $800,000/yr isn't going to have any real impact on an athletic department when you are talking budgets of $30 million or more each year.
  4. I don't dislike McNeill, I'm just not 100% confident in him as a head coach. I've seen several ECU fans say the same thing. You can be an alum with all the respect and recruiting ability in the world, but if you're not a great coach it won't matter.

 

Overall the AAC is definitely a better conference than CUSA, especially for basketball. I'm not arguing otherwise. The AAC is still a conference full of teams that nobody really gives a damn about on a national level though. The teams that left ultimately did not move up, they moved on. They all ended up in exactly the same situation they were in before realignment started. Before realignment CUSA was the 7-8th best conference in football each year (battling with the MWC most seasons for best non-BCS conference). Now they'll still be there battling with the MWC for best non-power conference while being excluded from all the important bowl games just like CUSA, SBC, and MAC teams.

 

Nobody that moved really won in realignment. It only looks that way because of the schools that were added to CUSA. If all the schools in CUSA had stayed put (which nobody could have expected them to do initially because it looked like a great deal for UCF, Houston, and SMU), then they'd be in basically the same position they are today. ECU, Tulsa, and Tulane had to jump poo because at that point they would have been left behind, but like I said, they moved on to stay exactly where they were at before rather than falling behind. It was a step forward, but not a step up.

 

Eventually there will be a time when all the non-power conference teams are excluded from bowl games that matter and the AAC will be right there with everyone else. There are a few schools left with some good political pull in the MWC and the AAC and those schools will be accommodated in exchange for not filing lawsuits. Cinci, UCONN, Memphis, BYU, some of the better MWC teams, and MAYBE Houston will get an invite to the few remaining spots in a 5x16 conference set up, but ultimately the rest will be left behind to wither on the vine like the other diseased fruit in the Group of 5 conferences.

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  1. Cinci was a better program in CUSA v1 than it is today. The basketball at Cinci is a shell of what it was under Bob Huggins. It isn't a perennial top 10 program anymore. Marquette is no longer there. Louisville is no longer there.  There is some talent in the AAC, but there aren't any consistent powers. People like to say any program that has had some recent success a growing program, but in reality, pretty much all the programs in the AAC are going to be up and down. They'll have their magical years and they'll have their normal years where they're neither good nor bad. And for schools like Tulane, Temple, UCONN, and Memphis, being bad is pretty regular on the football field. Everyone else falls solidly in the mediocre category. The best program in the AAC is Cinci and they're pleading to get out of the conference. They will when WVU finally cries loud enough and gets the Big XII to add a travel partner for them.
  2. I'm well aware of Richmond's talents and liabilities, but his offensive talents far outweighed his defensive liabilities. I've watched Richmond for years, even back when he was at Rhode Island and even a bit in HS. ECU had a ridiculously good +/- when he was on the floor. The new players you are talking about are freshmen, hard to rely on them to contribute much immediately. With Bryant Stith as the new assistant at Old Dominion, I wouldn't really count on keeping Stith all four years anyway. Whisnant was a great pickup, but he can't play for you this year. ECU has a chance to be really bad this year, taking them back to square one because they have no basketball history to rely on.
  3. The TV contract isn't double and more than anything it doesn't get the AAC much exposure because you're about the 4th or 5th option on ESPN. CUSA teams get $1.2 million a year ($1 million a year after Charlotte and ODU join for football) compared to $1.8 in the AAC, but our contract is with Fox Sports and will have pretty good treatment on the new Fox Sports 1 and Fox Sports 2 channels in prime time. I don't really count on CUSA maintaining such great placement after a few years when the contract expires and Fox has the option to renegotiate things, but we're sitting well for the next 3 years (and the AAC defectors are responsible for making up any difference in television contract value for an additional 2). Making an extra $800,000/yr isn't going to have any real impact on an athletic department when you are talking budgets of $30 million or more each year.
  4. I don't dislike McNeill, I'm just not 100% confident in him as a head coach. I've seen several ECU fans say the same thing. You can be an alum with all the respect and recruiting ability in the world, but if you're not a great coach it won't matter.

 

Overall the AAC is definitely a better conference than CUSA, especially for basketball. I'm not arguing otherwise. The AAC is still a conference full of teams that nobody really gives a damn about on a national level though. The teams that left ultimately did not move up, they moved on. They all ended up in exactly the same situation they were in before realignment started. Before realignment CUSA was the 7-8th best conference in football each year (battling with the MWC most seasons for best non-BCS conference). Now they'll still be there battling with the MWC for best non-power conference while being excluded from all the important bowl games just like CUSA, SBC, and MAC teams.

 

Nobody that moved really won in realignment. It only looks that way because of the schools that were added to CUSA. If all the schools in CUSA had stayed put (which nobody could have expected them to do initially because it looked like a great deal for UCF, Houston, and SMU), then they'd be in basically the same position they are today. ECU, Tulsa, and Tulane had to jump poo because at that point they would have been left behind, but like I said, they moved on to stay exactly where they were at before rather than falling behind. It was a step forward, but not a step up.

 

Eventually there will be a time when all the non-power conference teams are excluded from bowl games that matter and the AAC will be right there with everyone else. There are a few schools left with some good political pull in the MWC and the AAC and those schools will be accommodated in exchange for not filing lawsuits. Cinci, UCONN, Memphis, BYU, some of the better MWC teams, and MAYBE Houston will get an invite to the few remaining spots in a 5x16 conference set up, but ultimately the rest will be left behind to wither on the vine like the other diseased fruit in the Group of 5 conferences.

 

 

First of all, you're absolutely incorrect about Cincinnatti football being "better" in the CUSA. Cincy has been in the Big East/American for 8 seasons. Of those 8 seasons, they've won 12 games one time, 11 games one time, 10 games three times, and 8 games one time. They've had TWO losing seasons and are coming off of a 10 win season, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there. As far as basketball, F*CKING OF COURSE they were better in CUSA!! The Old Big East was either the best or the 2nd best basketball conference in the country every year! The competition is uncomparable. Memphis was their only true consistent competition every year. Besides, the addition of Memphis far cancels any shortcomings of Cincy, and the loss of the Cath. 7 will surely improve their record.

 

Another discrepency I have with you here is UConn football, which you proclaim to be so horrible. They joined the Big East in 04 and had 5 seasons of 8 or more wins during the Edsall era and went to 5 bowl games. Have they endured a small downswing since Pasqualoni was hired? Sure, but this bullsh*t about them being an embarrasment isn't true. winning 5 games 2 seasons in a row in a BCS conference doesn't qualify you as a cellar dwellar, it qualifys them as a below average team OVER THE PAST 2 YEARS. They have historically been a respectable team since joining the Big East over the long haul.

 

Then comes the money factor. I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but I'll break it down:

 

ESPN and The American have a $126 million dollar contract for first rights (as you know), 7 years for basketball, 6 years for football. Lets make the math easier and say it's 6 years for b-ball and 6 years for football.

 

CBS has a 6 year second right basketball agreement worth $54 million.

 

Thats $180,000,000 in total TV revenue for the American over the next 6 years.

 

In 2014 (when the final group of CUSA teams enters), the American will have 11 teams. Take that $180 million and divide it by 6, that's $30 million a year. Divide that $30 million by 11, that's $2.72 million per year, per team in 2014.

 

Fox and CUSA signed a $42 million first rights agreement over 5 years. They also signed a 5 year secondary agreement with CBS worth $35 million.

 

In 2014, CUSA will have 14 members. Take the total $77 million TV revenue, divide it by 5, that's $15.4 million per year in revenue. Divide it by 14 and that's $1.1 million per team, per year.

 

American in 2014 - $2.72 million per team, per year.

vs.

CUSA in 2014 - $1.1 million per team, per year.

 

More. Than. Double.

 

And I don't care about anything else other than the money. I don't care about exposure. I'm gonna watch my Pirates and the other die hards will and we have plenty of them. I don't care who else does. All I care is that we have more money to spend, and we will. Considerably more.

 

And in short, Lebo is a good coach. Ruffin is a great coach. Anyone who tells you otherwise is short sighted. Terry Holland makes good hires. He just proved another when he was given the responsibility to choose his successor, and he chose Jeff Compher, who just was chosen for Athletic Director of the Year.

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Great discussions.... I might have to post in this forum more often to avoid all the trolls 

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Fair enough PiratePanther. I was not aware of the CBS deal.

 

You will not convince me that Jeff Lebo is a good coach though. 

 

Overall, I'm a fan of the ECU program and I mostly like ECU fans that I've encountered. It's the App fans that I find unbearable.

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Fair enough PiratePanther. I was not aware of the CBS deal.

 

You will not convince me that Jeff Lebo is a good coach though. 

 

Overall, I'm a fan of the ECU program and I mostly like ECU fans that I've encountered. It's the App fans that I find unbearable.

 

Anyone who inherits a 10-21 team with a 4-12 and turns them into a 24-12 team with a 9-7 conference record in 3 years certainly is doing their job.

 

But this conversation is going nowhere. Both ECU and UNCC are making progress and I too wish you the best of luck as your football program gets started. Can never cheer against the city of Charlotte (unless they're playing the Pirates)

 

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