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#31 JGib23

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:34 PM

I'm not saying I want him or not, but you guys do realize that he's basically a 22+ppg 9rbpg player right?  His game has went down since going to Miami because of Wade/Lebron.    This draft is also terrible, so we really wouldn't be losing much.  Guy from YahooSports was on 610 this morning saying we should definitely do it because the draft is so bad.  I know some of you are worried about cap, but why?  We are most likely not going to bring someone in anyway.  We have to spend more money to even hit the minimum I believe.  If we need more cap, we can amnesty Tyrus.  If we're rebuilding, the contracts will be cheap anyway.  Moneywise, I think we're probably OK and it's possible we get a different contract in a sign and trade, I'm not sure. 

 

Holding out for some player next year is silly, I don't understand how people haven't learned how the NBA draft works.  The worst team hasn't got the #1 pick in years, maybe even a DECADE.  This isn't the NFL.  You can't bank on the draft.   Personally, I'd take making the playoffs at all for multiple years in a row.  It would build up our fanbase and we always have a shot.   The one year we DID make the playoffs, the hype in the city was at an all-time high, and not because anyone thought we could make a run, but because we MADE it there.  The Panthers would have a better fanbase if we ever made playoffs back-to-back years.   So if you gave me the choice of making the playoffs each year, even a low seed, versus sitting around on our hands with a terrible team hoping a "once-in-a-decade" player is in the draft AND we have a good pick, I'll take the playoffs each time.  Not to mention, if we start winning and become a bit more respectable, we'll bring in people easier.

 

Bosh DOES look rediculous, and I think he is soft a lot of times, but it's hard to pass up 22ppg and 9rbr PF/C that can shoot the occasional 3-ball when this team desperately needs someone to score.  He would automatically become the best Bobcat player ever.  And if some amazing miracle happened and we get someone to play down low with him that isn't terrible, we may have a fun team to watch.  Bosh is 29, I think he has at least 4 years left in him, maybe even more to contribute.

 

I'm mixed, I just don't think we can completely blow off the idea.  And then again, I'm still not sure this really has much merrit anyway.

 

 

 

It's a terrible idea as proposed.

 

1st- We lose the #4 pick inthis years draft.

#2- We get better next year and not only miss our chance at Wiggins, Parker, etc... we may lose the pick altogether because we owe Chicago our 1st round if it's not in the top 10.

#3 - Bosh can opt out of his contract after next season.

 

So- there is a very good chance they we give away 2 years worth of top 5 picks for 1 year of Chris Bosh.

 

Not worth the risk..

 

footnote- I wouldn't do the trade even if Bosh agreed to stay all 3 years... I'd rather have 2 top 5 picks and plent of cap space and flexibility than have Chris Bosh plus our current team fighting for the #7 or #8 seed in the east.

 

We didn't tear apart a mediocre to bad playoff team and become the worst team in the history of the NBA just to rebuild into a mediocre to bad playoff team again..

 

Our current core + #4 pick this season + top 10 pick next season+ cap space  is way better than

Our current core + Chris Bosh+ no cap space



#32 carolina-chuck

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

Agreed with "Zaximus" and "thatlookeasy".

 

Bosh is clearly still a 22 ppg and 9 rpg PF in this league. His stats dropped off the last three years due to playing along with Lebron and Wade. He's still one of the main piece to Miami's success over the years. How can people be so against Bosh, and are approved to bringing in a Millsap or Jefferson? Jefferson is going to get near the same amount of Bosh this offseason, and Bosh is clearly still better than both of them.

 

I have been preaching about tanking the season for Wiggins next year, but in a draft this bad with the chance to get a player of Bosh caliber you gotta do it. Bosh would instantly makes all of our young pieces better: Kemba, MKG, and Biyombo. Kemba would highly benefit from this addition and easily be a 8apg PG. The lottery draft never favors the weakest team. Washington was the 8th worst team and still jumped up to the no.3 pick. I'm not saying we are, but we could still be a top 5 team next year with Bosh on this team. I'd would love to settle for a Marcus Smart next year if we gained Bosh and loses in the Wiggins sweepstake. If we fall out of the top 5, I would much rather do it with Bosh than Millsap or Jefferson too.



#33 Zaximus

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:01 PM

It's not even close to a "terrible idea".

 

This team will NOT stay in this city for another 5 years of being terrible and not selling seats.  Waiting for the draft could realistically put you in that area of being BAD for years.  Everyone wants this OKC Fantasy of building a top team, getting super lucky with a Durrant and Westbrook, but that's the exception, NOT the rule.  Pass on Bosh, or any other FA, and hope something falls your way and you could be in the SAME spot you are now, 10 years from now.  We already did that for the past 10 years.  So you are taking a chance on getting a good pick, which is a crap shoot, you're taking a chance that the person you are picking up will pan out and we'll use him correctly, and you're taking a chance that in 5 years, this team will even be in this city.  Seattle wants a team, BAD, and if Jordan keeps losing money he WILL bail, as anyone would.

 

Don't even compare the Wallace/Jax team to the Bosh thing.  Wallace was pure luck from a expansion draft and Jax was ALWAYS just a stopgap.  Bosh is better than both combined, he's a top 10 player, and not many big men are dropping 24ppg/10rbs and can hit the three.   This team needs excitement, needs to sell tickets.  The Hornets of the 90's weren't a great team, but they were FUN, this team needs to be fun.  And I'll say it again, give me 7/8 seed for years and years in a row, we need to build a fan base, and you have to start from somewhere.

 

This is the worst draft in recent memory, and we're not even in the top 3 picks.   Also, there is absolutely NO WAY Bosh opts out of his contract at all, he'll be the most paid player or close to it, in the league, and he just won't do it.  I seriously believe he WANTS back in a smaller market away from the Lebron and Wade show.   If you use Bosh correctly he can be a matchup nightmare.  But I would still want someone down low with him that's a bit more physical, if we could land Bosh AND someone like Jefferson or Millsap or even Hickson, I think we'll be a fun team that could possibly be a top 5 in the east.

 

I'm not even a massive Bosh fan, but I think it could do wonders for this team having an actual ALL-STAR in Hornets colors.



#34 JGib23

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

Nobody said to stink for another 5 years..... We need to keep our pick this year stink for 1 more year. that way we have a core or

Kemba

MKG

Jeff Taylor

Biz

#4 pick

our Top 5 pick

Future Pistons Pick (Top 8 Protected next year, top 2 in 2015, unprotected in 2016)

Future PDX Pick (Heavily restricted for 3 years)

 

then we can go bat poo crazy and sign or trade for whoever we can but, to lose 2 top picks and all cap flexibility for Chris Bosh is insane.

 

Additionally the team has sold over $1.5 M in tickets since the name change announcement. Lots of people (myself included) have already purchased tickets for the 2014-2015 Hornets season- so a bad record next year isn't the end of the world because the team will be given a hall pass... the 2014-2015 season is really the season we should be shooting for to make our run.

 

 

To Carolina Chuck's point... The reason people would prefer us sign Al Jefferson is because it doesn't cost us a top 5 pick in addition to a max contract.

Bosh is most likely the better player at this point than Al Jefferson but, he isn't better than Al Jefferson + a top 5 pick.

 

I prefer we conserve the cap space this summer in order to take advantage of the teams that will unload good players plus picks to avoid the luxury tax... Cleveland was able to pick up Maresse Speights and a 1st round pick because they had cap space..... Cap space is sooooo important in the new CBA.



#35 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:08 PM

When the team officially takes the court as the Charlotte Hornets again, which would you rather see...

 

Kemba

Henderson

MKG

Jabari Parker (Projected anywhere from 2nd to 5th in mocks I've seen)

Len

 

*Plenty of cap space, trade pieces

 

or 

 

Kemba 

Henderson

MKG

Bosh (if he doesn't leave)*

Biz

*Max money tied up in a guy who doesn't deserve it

 

The 2nd team would be relying on an aging Bosh, a PG who can't shoot, an average SG, a SF without much offensive game at the moment, and a Center, who despite being loved by fans, is basically garbage and probably will never be above an average guy.

 

The 1st team remains largely the same, but adds a young, potential superstar who some have compared to Carmelo, without the issues. And then also Alex Len, a project admittedly, but one who has been compared at times to Hibbert.  Not to mention cap flexibility to upgrade the SG position or whatever else is needed at the time.  Don't want Parker? Get 15 years of Wiggins, Randle, Smart, a Harrison twin, or whatever over a couple years of Bosh then.  

 

Building a team to compete is easy, and money can buy that.  Get Bosh, sign Jefferson, go to the playoffs and lose in the 1st round.  How many teams have done this and found ultimate success however?

 

Building a team to contend? Land a superstar first, or at least a few stars if you are in the Pacers mold, and go from there.  How many teams have done this and won?  Basically every title winner in the league's history.  

 

 

 



#36 PantherBrew

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:31 PM

My God if the Heat could pull this off. 

 

They are looking at 

 

Possibility of getting Burke at point, McLemore, Bennet or Len AND money to sign Howard, West, or Jefferson. 

 

Holy crap. 

 

 



#37 carolina-chuck

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:51 PM

Nobody said to stink for another 5 years..... We need to keep our pick this year stink for 1 more year. that way we have a core or
Kemba
MKG
Jeff Taylor
Biz
#4 pick
our Top 5 pick
Future Pistons Pick (Top 8 Protected next year, top 2 in 2015, unprotected in 2016)
Future PDX Pick (Heavily restricted for 3 years)

then we can go bat poo crazy and sign or trade for whoever we can but, to lose 2 top picks and all cap flexibility for Chris Bosh is insane.

Additionally the team has sold over $1.5 M in tickets since the name change announcement. Lots of people (myself included) have already purchased tickets for the 2014-2015 Hornets season- so a bad record next year isn't the end of the world because the team will be given a hall pass... the 2014-2015 season is really the season we should be shooting for to make our run.


To Carolina Chuck's point... The reason people would prefer us sign Al Jefferson is because it doesn't cost us a top 5 pick in addition to a max contract.
Bosh is most likely the better player at this point than Al Jefferson but, he isn't better than Al Jefferson + a top 5 pick.

I prefer we conserve the cap space this summer in order to take advantage of the teams that will unload good players plus picks to avoid the luxury tax... Cleveland was able to pick up Maresse Speights and a 1st round pick because they had cap space..... Cap space is sooooo important in the new CBA.

The thing is I'm saying is Bosh and Jefferson both will bring us the same amount of win or loss. Bosh is not going to win us 15 more games than Jefferson. I rather be an 8 seed Playoffs or Top5 pick team with Bosh than Jefferson. We are not going to make the Playoffs with Bosh and be a Top5 team with Jefferson.

People are just dumb. They whined about having a franchise player and when the oppurtunity is there they say "no, thank you". It's like the unemployed workers crying about Mexican taking over jobs but when the job is there for taking they refuse it.

#38 carolina-chuck

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:05 PM

When the team officially takes the court as the Charlotte Hornets again, which would you rather see...

Kemba
Henderson
MKG
Jabari Parker (Projected anywhere from 2nd to 5th in mocks I've seen)
Len

*Plenty of cap space, trade pieces

or

Kemba
Henderson
MKG
Bosh (if he doesn't leave)*
Biz
*Max money tied up in a guy who doesn't deserve it

The 2nd team would be relying on an aging Bosh, a PG who can't shoot, an average SG, a SF without much offensive game at the moment, and a Center, who despite being loved by fans, is basically garbage and probably will never be above an average guy.

The 1st team remains largely the same, but adds a young, potential superstar who some have compared to Carmelo, without the issues. And then also Alex Len, a project admittedly, but one who has been compared at times to Hibbert. Not to mention cap flexibility to upgrade the SG position or whatever else is needed at the time. Don't want Parker? Get 15 years of Wiggins, Randle, Smart, a Harrison twin, or whatever over a couple years of Bosh then.

Building a team to compete is easy, and money can buy that. Get Bosh, sign Jefferson, go to the playoffs and lose in the 1st round. How many teams have done this and found ultimate success however?

Building a team to contend? Land a superstar first, or at least a few stars if you are in the Pacers mold, and go from there. How many teams have done this and won? Basically every title winner in the league's history.


A PG who can't score? Lol. Guess you don't know who Kemba is.


But, who said Bosh is taking you out of a Top5 pick? You never know what's going to happen; injuries, luck of the draft. If we somehow land a Top5, we may lose out on Wiggins, Parker, and Randle but I'd glady take Smart.

PG: Kemba
SG: Smart / Hendo
SF: MKG / Taylor
PF: Bosh
C. : Biyombo

Also, you never know if Len will bust and Parker could have a Bazz's college career.

#39 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:16 PM

Where did I say Kemba couldn't score?  I'll wait.  I said he can't shoot.  He's a decent player, but is not, and more than likely will not ever be a Top 10 PG.

 

Sweet Jesus, I've even said in this thread I believe that I don't think Bosh makes this team a playoff team.  There's hardly ANY talent here.  And obviously I'd take Smart (again, said that in this thread)...who is a PG and would force the Bobcats to trade Kemba more than likely if they went that route. I also called Len a project, and am highly skeptical of him, but if you want to play the "you never know" game, then you never know, but Bosh could come here and put up 10 and 6.  Bosh is not a franchise guy, especially at this stage in his career.  Why trade a pick for him, and pay him like one then?  Maybe you'll read this post correctly?



#40 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:20 PM

Just a side, Kemba's shooting numbers, pro and college...

 

UCONN - FG% - 47%, 40%, 43%

               3P% - 27%, 34%, 33%

 

Cats -  FG % - 36%, 43%

           3P% - 30%, 32%

 

Again, never said he can't score...you put those words in my mouth.  I said he can't shoot.  He's never been a shooter, and probably never will be.  

 

Also never underestimate the fact that numbers lie.  This is the Bobcats...somebody has to put the ball in the basket, and sadly Kemba is the best option, despite his poor shooting splits.



#41 Third Degree

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

Horrible fail. Can't shoot? LOL OK. 

 

Also you're all gambling on the fact every piece we have will re-sign here, something that's, oh, just about never happened. But by all means continue telling me how picking in the top 5 for 15 years is better than being an 8 seed in the playoffs. I guess the Clippers were just rebuilding from 1984-2009 before finally getting Blake Griffin and being a short-term contender, right? They were just staying the course for 25 years?



#42 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:38 PM

Just, no.  Showing facts does nothing I see.  I mean, please enlighten me on how great of a shooter Kemba is.  Please.

 

Not to mention throwing the Clippers out there without opening the can of worms that is their problems is just silly to try to draw a comparison to the Hornets problems.  

 

But if you want to use Blake as an example...they drafted him.  A potential superstar.  As well as other nice pieces and then brought a guy in to make them contenders.  They weren't, due to internal problems, Vinny, Donald Sterling, players bitching at each other, etc.  Keep throwing out dumb ass hypothetical situations like picking in the Top 5 for 15 years though, which I haven't mentioned and hasn't happened here.  I've already said in this thread, again, that there is an easy way to be a playoff contender and compete.  Buy a couple players, they're there.  They, and essentially every other team who has ever won big, haven't done that.  Please, look at the past champions and teams that made it to finals, and tell me how they were built.  They weren't striving for 8 seeds.  They gambled or got lucky by drafting or trading for a YOUNG superstar, and went from there.  

 

 



#43 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:44 PM

In case you need an article, showing the doubts on Kemba's shooting ON TOP of the damn stats I provided.  I'll even do you one better, his high school recruiting profile.  Weaknesses?  Perimeter and 3 point shooting.  It's always been a problem.  He's a play maker.  Not a shooter.  Again, it's the Bobcats and he's the number 1 option.  Somebody has to score.  He does, with poo percentages, largely based on the high volume of poo shots and inconsistency that has always plagued him.

 

http://sportsillustr...lker/index.html

 

http://miami.scout.c...c=1&nid=2742155



#44 Third Degree

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:58 PM

43% from the field is that bad? Hmm, I guess Allen Iverson must have sucked too. He spent most of his career as a sub-43% shooter. And yes, I'm going to keep bringing up the Clippers because for 25 years they did what you and others on here suggest: keep sucking, keep drafting, keep sucking, rinse, lather, repeat. This franchise has made the correct draft selection twice (Okafor, Walker) and you could maybe argue Henderson and Felton. They have an atrocious track record and in a situation where if you can get MIA to do a sign-and-trade for #4, you do it because it gets kind of old being allergic to success. At least I believe it does. But some people can look at 21-61, think "Yay Wiggins Time" and get happy again despite the fact we'd be tanking to pick a guy who plays the same position as our LAST top pick. 



#45 carolina-chuck

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:24 PM

Where did I say Kemba couldn't score?  I'll wait.  I said he can't shoot.  He's a decent player, but is not, and more than likely will not ever be a Top 10 PG.

 

Sweet Jesus, I've even said in this thread I believe that I don't think Bosh makes this team a playoff team.  There's hardly ANY talent here.  And obviously I'd take Smart (again, said that in this thread)...who is a PG and would force the Bobcats to trade Kemba more than likely if they went that route. I also called Len a project, and am highly skeptical of him, but if you want to play the "you never know" game, then you never know, but Bosh could come here and put up 10 and 6.  Bosh is not a franchise guy, especially at this stage in his career.  Why trade a pick for him, and pay him like one then?  Maybe you'll read this post correctly?

 

My bad. I shouldve said "SHOOT" instead of "SCORE".
I dont give a crap about what you think. Kemba is our best shooter/scorer on this team. He has shown it times after times that he can shoot/score the ball. The kid is only in his 2nd year in the pro. He vastly improved his production last year from his rookie year, and I will only guess that he'll repeat it again in his 3rd year. Kemba has outperformed Brandon Knight who came out the same year as he did. His first two years are very similar to Jrue Holiday, who many believes to be a Top10 PG in this league. The only thing that Kemba could improve on is his APG, but he cant do nothing about that until he gets some other help.




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