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#46 CarolinaNCSU

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:56 PM

Again, not knocking any part of Kemba EXCEPT his shooting.  43% last year was decent, yes.  Show consistency.  Until proven otherwise, he's the same guy who teetered back and forth with percentages in college.  Glass half full, yeah he may continue that rate.  His proven track record, chances are he may not.  He's good at slashing/driving/creating, much like AI, to use that comparison...but he also isn't in the same league as AI.  Iverson got to the FT line on average a couple hundred more times per season than Kemba for instance.  AI was special.  How the old management drafted also doesn't play as big of a role here, as Cho has made the right selections it seems (outside of Bismack).  As others, including Chuck who pied the above post have said, adding Bosh doesn't make this team even a guaranteed playoff contender.  So why tie up money in an aging player who may not want to be here?  You gain a band-aid to add 7-8 wins per season, while giving up a Top 5 pick, potentially in 2 drafts if it takes us out of the Top 5 in 2014?  

 

As for Chuck, not giving a crap what I think, doesn't exactly matter. Yes, Kemba is the best scorer/shooter...that's sad.  Doesn't mean he's great or even good at it yet.  It speaks volumes to the talent level of this team. I hope he does continue improving...the past and facts however say he's wildly inconsistent until proven otherwise. Let's say his ceiling is Jrue Holiday.  The Hornets are anything more than a borderline playoff team with Jrue Holiday as the best player?  Add Bosh to that, they're arguably still not even better than the 76ers now.  

 

I understand that losing sucks and it would be nice to see a playoff run, despite how short it would be right now.  Personally, I'd rather compete for titles.  There's a reason they blew the team up, and that small market teams constantly have to do it.  It's the way it is.  If you want nothing more than a random playoff win every couple years, get Bosh or sign Jefferson as a band-aid/stop-gap type guy and hope Bismack suddenly becomes a ball player, MKG develops a shot, and Kemba ascends into an elite PG.  I'd say the chances are higher they land a stud in next year's draft and then build around him.  It's just a matter of preference in the rebuilding style.  One method prefers to win consistently, but never win it all, and the other prefers to compete for the ultimate goal...an actual title.  The Heat, Mavs, Lakers, Spurs, Bulls, Celtics, Rockets, etc. who have all won titles in the last 30 years started by either drafting, or completing a draft day trade, for their superstars.  Right now, the Bobcats don't have one.  Until somebody develops into one (not likely), or they find one...mediocre is the ceiling in a small market. 



#47 PiratePanther189

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:49 AM

Would completely ruin any chance to rebuild the team. So help me christ if this ever happened.



#48 Zaximus

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:35 AM

Of course everyone wants to compete for titles, but the problem is, if this team doesn't start making money NOW, it's gone in a matter of a few years.  MJ won't keep bleeding money to keep this going.  Time is something we DO NOT have.  The name change will help, but fielding a fun and competitive team even if it's a low seed for a few years in the row is what this city and team NEEDS to get on a roll.  

 

It's like people don't realize we've been terrible and rebuilding for a decade.  If this was 8 years ago I'd be all for not signing anyone.  So I'd rather keep an NBA team in Charlotte rather hinging the franchise on "draft luck".  



#49 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:00 AM

Of course everyone wants to compete for titles, but the problem is, if this team doesn't start making money NOW, it's gone in a matter of a few years. MJ won't keep bleeding money to keep this going. Time is something we DO NOT have. The name change will help, but fielding a fun and competitive team even if it's a low seed for a few years in the row is what this city and team NEEDS to get on a roll.

It's like people don't realize we've been terrible and rebuilding for a decade. If this was 8 years ago I'd be all for not signing anyone. So I'd rather keep an NBA team in Charlotte rather hinging the franchise on "draft luck".


You would actually be surprised, but according to the Charlotte Business Journal the Hornets sold $1 million dollars in tickets in the first 24 hours of the name change.

So it's not like we're not making money and one more year at the chance of landing a possible superstar in Wiggins, Parker, Randle, or Smart will not break this team financially.

However trading for Bosh would, if I'm not mistaking Bosh has a player option that would pay him 22 million dollars then 20 million dollars in consecutive years, making him the third highest paid player in the NBA in that time span. You could argue that Bosh may opt out of his contract, and if that's the case; then the Hornets essentially traded a top five pick for a one year rental.

On top of all of this, if the Hornets did make this deal and the team had a decent season (not in the lottery), then we would also lose our 2014 draft pick to Chicago which could potentially leave us with no draft picks in what could be one of the deepest drafts in recent history.

If you can honestly say you would still take Bosh after all this, I would love to know why.

#50 Zaximus

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:03 AM

There is NO way Bosh would opt out, and I also believe he likes the smaller markets better anyway.

 

1 million in tickets is nothing, and unless the team is fun and competitive that's ALL they will sell.  Those are the hardcore fans but the normal fans will want a competitive team to buy tickets multiple times a year.

 

When you say "one more year at the chance" you are basically guessing.  It could be a decade before we get a superstar, or never.  Like I've said before, the worst team hasn't got the #1 pick in years, so nothing is given.  This team will not survive 5 more years of hoping to get lucky in the draft.  It just won't.  The name change will help some but you can throw glitter on a turd and at the end of the day it's still just a turd.  In our situation, after a decade of suck, we don't have time on our side.  So yeah, I'd choose an all-star that has years left over a crap shoot in a rigged NBA lottery.   People are are 100% against this keep using the word "could" or "possibly" to define the draft next year, but Bosh IS an all-star, and HAS and CAN score 22ppg and 9rpg+.

 

At this point we have to spend money anyway to reach the minimum.  Also, no one wants to come here anyway, so it wouldn't be money we would NEED to spend on other things, if we needed money Tyrus would have been amnestied a while ago.  I think people are just so used to the Bobcats being terrible as the culture of the team they are OK with waiting another 5 years of playing the draft, but money talks and MJ isn't stupid.  He'll dump this in a few years if it doesn't start making money.  Not to mention Seattle WILL jump at any team once it comes up, they almost got the Kings.



#51 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

There is NO way Bosh would opt out, and I also believe he likes the smaller markets better anyway.

 

1 million in tickets is nothing, and unless the team is fun and competitive that's ALL they will sell.  Those are the hardcore fans but the normal fans will want a competitive team to buy tickets multiple times a year.

 

When you say "one more year at the chance" you are basically guessing.  It could be a decade before we get a superstar, or never.  Like I've said before, the worst team hasn't got the #1 pick in years, so nothing is given.  This team will not survive 5 more years of hoping to get lucky in the draft.  It just won't.  The name change will help some but you can throw glitter on a turd and at the end of the day it's still just a turd.  In our situation, after a decade of suck, we don't have time on our side.  So yeah, I'd choose an all-star that has years left over a crap shoot in a rigged NBA lottery.   People are are 100% against this keep using the word "could" or "possibly" to define the draft next year, but Bosh IS an all-star, and HAS and CAN score 22ppg and 9rpg+.

 

At this point we have to spend money anyway to reach the minimum.  Also, no one wants to come here anyway, so it wouldn't be money we would NEED to spend on other things, if we needed money Tyrus would have been amnestied a while ago.  I think people are just so used to the Bobcats being terrible as the culture of the team they are OK with waiting another 5 years of playing the draft, but money talks and MJ isn't stupid.  He'll dump this in a few years if it doesn't start making money.  Not to mention Seattle WILL jump at any team once it comes up, they almost got the Kings.

 

You literally just don't get it...

 

1) Okay, so let's say Bosh doesn't opt out of his contract, then we are stuck paying a guy that will be in his 30's and on the decline like he is the best player in the world. This would also create a lot of cap issues especially being that it would be time to re-up Kemba's contract and we literally just wouldn't have the money to do it.

 

2) Making a $1 million dollar profit in less that 24 hours is actually a hefty accomplishment, especially for a team that has been historically bad. The name change definitely set a pace of what ticket sales could be once the team is competitive.

 

3) When I say one more year, I literally mean one more year. I listed four potential all-stars. Not one, not two, not three, but four (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, and Smart). If the Hornets finish with one of the worst three records in the NBA, they are almost guaranteed a top four pick. Also, if the lottery is rigged, who says that the NBA (Adam Silver now) wouldn't finally rig it for us? After all, there will be tons of nostalgia surrounding the fan base next year with the Hornets officially back. What better way to reward the franchise than with the first overall pick?

 

4) I know we have to spend money to reach the minimum, I'm the one who has been saying this the entire time; but there is a difference between spending money and being stupid with money. The NBA is a business, so saying that no one would ever want to sign with Charlotte is foolish, and like you said, money talks.

 

5) The team is not moving, the re-brand proves that. Do you realize how much of a waste of money that would have been to do a complete a total re-brand with the intentions of moving if things don't go our way the next few years? Jordan has proven to be a bad business man, but he is not an idiot.

 

6) Amnestying Tyrus Thomas still does nothing for the situation, we still owe that money to Thomas... It just doesn't count as cap space and even then it would be hard to put players around Bosh with the lack of money we would have even if we amnestied Thomas.

 

It's just not a smart decision. You're just one of the few that want a quick fix in hopes of a playoff team, when the Hornets are trying to build a championship team which will take a little bit more time.



#52 Third Degree

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:47 AM

It's just nice to see people giving a damn about this franchise.



#53 Zaximus

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:00 AM

First, I don't want a quick fix, I'd love to go the Thunder route.  However, this is a different situation.  This team didn't just land in a new city like they did.  This team has been here for a decade and has been terrible the whole time minus one playoff run (which I might add, boosted enthusiasm and excitement ten-fold when it happens).  The problem is, we do NOT have years to wait.   I'd even be OK with spending the money we'd spend on Bosh in bringing in a couple good free agents, but I'm not sure this team/city can pull them in, which is why the Bosh deal is different AND the fact that I really believe he WANTS to be in a small market.  It's also a bit too early to tell if he's on the "decline."  He's 29 years old.  I believe he's around Lebron's age.  So you're telling me Lebron is on the decline?  I would say Bosh is probably in his prime right now, and will be for a few years.  People keep forgetting that Bosh was close to a top 5 player before going to Miami, and definitely a top-10.

 

1) Bosh will be 32 at the end of the contract, that is IF he takes the player options (which he probably will).  When you said "into his 30's" I think about age 35+, but at 32, he will hardly be at a decline.  Kobe is doing pretty well, or has.  It's not the NFL, 32 isn't the end of the world.

 

2) 1 million in 24 hours IS awesome, but how much since?  Past the hardcore fans that bought in that 24 hours, I bet there is a HUGE dip in sales.   At the end of the day, 1 million is nothing.

 

3) So we're guaranteed that one of those 4 players will be a super-star?  We WILL get a Lebron/Durrant out of that group?  You are telling me that FOUR future superstars will be picks 1-4 in the same year?  That would be amazing and the the best draft ever probably.  Drafting is always a risk, minus someone like Lebron, and how often does that happen?  You know what I DO know?  Bosh was a 22/24ppg player before becoming third fiddle.  That IS proven.  It's there in the stat sheets.

 

4) The chances of us bringing in FAs of Bosh's caliber is slim to none.  I hate to say it, but it's true.  It's apparent not even the "MJ factor" helps.  There is enough evidence out there with past signings to know this.  No one wants to come to Charlotte.  It's not known for anything.  The thing it IS known for (banking) isn't even really known.   The NBA isn't like the other sports.  NBA players are way more like children and make selections with different criteria (not all but it seems like most).   In order to get someone here you WOULD have to pay them what Bosh would get paid, and most likely wouldn't be as good as Bosh.

 

5) Don't be delusional.  If this team doesn't start making money in a few years, it's going to leave, or begin the process.  It only cost the team 3 million or so to re-brand, that's not a lot, not even CLOSE to what they lose on a year to year basis I'm sure.  Seattle will jump at the chance, and have more to offer, and a better city that seems to care more about the NBA than Charlotte.

 

6) I think everyone understands how that works, thanks though?  I only said, that if this team needed cap room, Tyrus wouldn't be around anymore, since he's still eating up bench space, it's obviously we don't need the cap room and obvious no one wants to come here under normal free agency (not anyone that is a star like Bosh that is).

 

Once again, I'd like to build through draft, I just don't feel we have the luxury of time on our side.  Is Bosh expensive?  Yes.   But we need some kind of excitement to get this team moving.  Back to back playoff appearances, even quick outs, would bring some energy and maybe change the culture of this team a bit so we CAN bring in some decent FAs and not have to overpay.  I'm not even a huge fan of Bosh I'm just not COMPLETELY against the idea though.

 



#54 Third Degree

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:05 AM

No one wants to come to Charlotte.  It's not known for anything. 

 

Shallow Hal was filmed here...



#55 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

Shallow Hal was filmed here...


fug is shallow hal?

#56 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:09 AM

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

#57 Third Degree

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:37 AM

haha it's a movie, dude. Not a majorly popular one. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0256380/

 



#58 chubs2496

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:57 AM

Reallly dude. 1 million in ticket sales dosent impress you? So u ask how many have sold since then? How many people do u think live in charlotte bro. This aint Tokyo. That's damn impressive. And a capital HELL NO to bosh.

#59 Captain Morgan

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:07 AM

Howard Stern....

Dwight Howard...

 

 

 

Howard Stern has a far, far better chance of being a Hornet than Dwight Howard.



#60 Zaximus

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:18 AM

Reallly dude. 1 million in ticket sales dosent impress you? So u ask how many have sold since then? How many people do u think live in charlotte bro. This aint Tokyo. That's damn impressive. And a capital HELL NO to bosh.

 

It's 1 million in sales, not 1 million people signed up.  If they did the deal for 2 years of season tickets (which I'm sure they did since this was right after that deal was posted) that's maybe about 1k or 1.1k fans.  I think the arena holds maybe 25k or a little less?  I'm not saying it isn't awesome, but until we know the true sales we can't see 1 million in sales and assume this team's money problems are over.  Not to mention that deal is over 2 years, so they've made 500k for the next year and 500k the next by the numbers we already have.   The new gear from the Hornets will bring in SOME money, but at the endo f the day you need butts in the seats.




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