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jtnc

Cam wants a run game

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The GM picks a coach who reflects his philosophy and who will do what he wants. Gettleman has already said that Rivera and he are on the same page and have a similar philosophy.  Gettleman has already told us what the coaching philosophy will be.  The changes Gettleman wants are to have Cam stay in the pocket, use the running backs more which is why he kept both Williams and  Stewart, and do what they did in New York.

it doesn't matter whether Rivera was picked by him or not.  They are on the same page they are going to do what Gettleman wants done and that is really it.  GMs do a lot more than hire and fire.  Gettleman hs said he has the last word on everything. Not just hiring and firing.

Only a fool for a coach would vary from what Gettleman says to do given that he is on the hot seat and Gettleman is surely not.

Rivera needs to win....taking away Cam's legs greatly reduces those chances. Cam is largely the reason we where in almost all 32 games of his career. Arm and legs.

Only a fool would take Cam Newton at this stage of his career and think his game should resemble Eli's...I don't think you fully credit Cam for how impactful his legs have been.

And no, out first year GM.....doesn't have the last word on everything. He doesn't even have final say on coaches. Jerry Richardson wouldn't even allow him to be in a position to debate hot Rivera's fate. Again, he is a GM. He has limitations.....he isn't this all powerful man who is going to be more coach, QB coach, O coordinator you paint him as.

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allow me to clarify, all of you have spent 20 pages arguing.

 

the "system" isn't going to be so black and white that the GM affects playcalling so much as what the defense gives them as a whole.  Fact is, one game Cam may stay in the pocket and the next have gaping holes to run through...

 

anything else is just arguing to argue.

The GM determine philosophy and direction which means he bring in the players that he and Rivera want.  They discuss how they will be used and what we will do. As you note weekly gameplanning will determine what we run.  Not just from what the defense gives us but our personnel which changes based on injuries and what we are doing well.  As long as things go well Gettleman will let Rivera run things.  But if  they don't expect Gettleman to get a lot more involved just like Rivera did in 2012 when the defense struggled in 2011. 

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Difference is that I argue for a page or two and quit. You go on and on and when no one argues, you try to bait people into arguing.  Then you start psting the same thing in every thread.  when  that isn't enough, you make up new threads to argue your point. 

 

You argue with everyone and the common denominator is you.  Don't put me in the same boat with you.

Oh, you quit after a page or two? If you say so.

Also, I rarely create threads.

I like conflicting opinions. Only way you learn new stuff. The other day someone pointed out some Dave Gettlemen info I had been ignoring. It came to light for me in a thread like this.

Solution for you is simple.....if you don't like discussing things with me, don't. I already told you I enjoy your thoughts even though we rarely agree outside of draft picks which we had been oddly eye to eye on for a while.

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Who was OC last year?  Who is OC this year?? What does last year have to do with this?

Why is Shula the OC....pretty sure it has a lot to do with what we have been doing with Cam and continuing it. That is if you value what Rivera says...

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because of shoddy o-line play. cam had more opportunities to run in the first half. that to me is the difference. we fix the o-line and run less read option, cam runs less.

Gross is another year older, G play still questionable, RT still questionable....

If Cam had more opportunity to run the first half of the season with an overload of zone read....why did he run less than the 2nd half when he was so impressive overall?

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The GM determine philosophy and direction which means he bring in the players that he and Rivera want.  They discuss how they will be used and what we will do. As you note weekly gameplanning will determine what we run.  Not just from what the defense gives us but our personnel which changes based on injuries and what we are doing well.  As long as things go well Gettleman will let Rivera run things.  But if  they don't expect Gettleman to get a lot more involved just like Rivera did in 2012 when the defense struggled in 2011. 

 

I see your overall point, but I still think Cam is going to get his..  however you put it.  If the defense leaves him wide open then I expect to see him take the yards.  I just think it's going to happen despite the scheme.

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Gross is another year older, G play still questionable, RT still questionable....

If Cam had more opportunity to run the first half of the season with an overload of zone read....why did he run less than the 2nd half when he was so impressive overall?

 

didn't say our line wasn't questionable. i still think they will be better though with kalil back and with amini having another year in the league, hold my breath on hangman/kug. i also think less read option looks will help our line be more stable, as well as cam stating he now has figured out taking 3 yards is better than forcing something which was evident down the stretch of last year.

 

and the second part. i said the opportunity to run in zone read. he had more opportunities to run overall. doesn't mean he didn't hand the ball off to a rb.  it was an influx of too much zone read looks, whether it was run or fake run/ pass. Cam was more effective with the ball down the stretch in the passing game which opened up the running game. the o-line was somewhat more cohesive (even though there were bad games like Oakland) But we limited the zone read looks and Cam was a more effective runner because of it down the stretch a la Atlanta home game.

 

now Shula wants to utilize the rbs more, Cam wants to take the check down yards instead of forcing it. Which means either throwing down the field or taking off and running. There are many different ways this can play out. Cam will always have his legs to escape the pocket, he'll get his few designed run plays. But this is just what i've heard from the players/coaches. And i think this equates to Cam rushing less. i also think tolbert gets more of the goal line carries. but a million things can happen; oline could be complete poo, wide receivers suck and can't get open, ect, ect. But from what they are trying to do and if they succeed at what they are trying to do. Cam will run less because there are other options and Cam is gonna be smarter with the football overall. Doesn't mean he isn't gonna run and make plays with his legs.

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Just because Cam is a fugging tank, does not mean you can run him willy nilly. Sooner or later some little DB will take his knees out or some other Evans on Culpepper deal.

Also, the pocket is a dangerous place. For every QB, not just Cam. But, if we are going to be elite. Cam needs to be a QB.

Yes Cam is dangerous with the ball in his hands. But you are tempting fate by using him like a RB.

CRA is a dreamer. He wants his shiney new toy to be the best on the block. Doesn't matter the toy will break the way he plays with it. And it is funny how CRA dismisses reports of Rivera, Shula, and Gettlemen saying they want to limit Cam's running. Because his toy won't be as much fun that way.

Kids never do learn to treat their toys and tools with the respect they deserve.

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Just because Cam is a fugging tank, does not mean you can run him willy nilly. Sooner or later some little DB will take his knees out or some other Evans on Culpepper deal.

Also, the pocket is a dangerous place. For every QB, not just Cam. But, if we are going to be elite. Cam needs to be a QB.

Yes Cam is dangerous with the ball in his hands. But you are tempting fate by using him like a RB.

CRA is a dreamer. He wants his shiney new toy to be the best on the block. Doesn't matter the toy will break the way he plays with it. And it is funny how CRA dismisses reports of Rivera, Shula, and Gettlemen saying they want to limit Cam's running. Because his toy won't be as much fun that way.

Kids never do learn to treat their toys and tools with the respect they deserve.

Outside of short yardage runs he isn't used as a RB and I have said they should limit those or come close to removing all of them. Steve Young wasn't used as a RB.

Rivera nor Shula have once said they want to limit Cam running anymore than they did in 11 or 12.

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Outside of short yardage runs he isn't used as a RB

 

But, you still think that we should be using our franchise QB as a battering ram and Full Back in short yardage situations.  No matter how big and strong he is, that is just plain dumb in the bigger scheme of things.

 

We have Tolbert (fuging bowling ball and great short yardage back).  Let him take the pounding.....which is a reason that RB's lives in the NFL is so short...because they take a pounding.

 

For the longer view, it is definitely a good idea to limit the number of vicious hits that Cam takes plowing into the line.

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I'm sure this has been posted before (by Jarhead for example). However, it needs some refreshing, considering the present ongoing debate.

 

For what ever it's worth:

 

 

The Panthers are de-emphasizing the zone read play under new OC Mike Shula.

 

During OTAs and minicamps, the Panthers did not practice very many option plays. The franchise wants Cam Newton to make plays from the pocket first and use his legs to create opportunities in the scrambling game. Essentially, Shula is planning on running more of a conventional offense that features base runs to the backs. It's a good thing for Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, but it could lead to deflated rushing stats for Newton. In his first two NFL seasons, he's rushed 253 times for a jaw-dropping 1,447 yards and 22 touchdowns.

 

There's a whole lot of Keywords in that paragraph ("The Franchise wants"; "make plays from the pocket first"; "more conventional offense that features Base runs to the backs"), that should make it very clear to anyone, unless this writer is a complete liar/fiction, making great unfounded suppositions.  :phew:

 

Of course game dynamics and the defense will ultimately dictate what the Panthers "O" do on the field. However, it appears very clear the team wants Cam in the pocket more and less running, read option from the outset. 

 

This was from Rotoworld/NBC Sports, via The Charlotte Observer by the way. 

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But, you still think that we should be using our franchise QB as a bettering ram and Full Back in short yardage situations. No matter how big and strong he is, that is just plain dumb in the bigger scheme of things.

We have Tolbert (fuging bowling ball and great short yardage back). Let him take the pounding.....which is a reason that RB's lives in the NFL is so short...because they take a pounding.

For the longer view, it is definitely a good idea to limit the number of vicious hits that Cam takes plowing into the line.

How is it that I claim he should be used as a battering ran when I constantly talk about removing and limiting his goaline and short yardage work?

Steve Young wasn't a battering ram....Cam can run more than Young with the goaline piles removed

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