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Cam wants a run game


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#166 FattyFatFat

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

We had a rookie guard that moved from D2 to the NFL. This made the left side weaker which negatively affected Jordan Gross's play (that and him getting older and slower) . Ryan Kalil hurt did not help matters. Too many running options (Dwill, Stewart, Tolbert, Cam) and a reliance on the run option in too many situations made us more predictable and easier to stop. Cam has a rocket for an arm but struggled his first two years with the screen pass by over and under throwing open backs who had blockers also hurt us. I felt that he definitely improved his screen passing ability in the second half of the year and think this can get only better as time moves forward. I think we have the weapons to have a really good run game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#167 DaCityKats

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:29 PM

Why do you think a GM brings in his own guy as the coach? Because he is bringing a guy that fits his philosophy. So he is in fact setting what the team will be, right from the start.

When the GM and coach interact as much as Rivera and Gettlemen they communicate. That does not mean Gettlemen is drawing up plays. It simply means he is honing the philosophy of who we want to be.

Not every GM - Coach have this type of relationship. But there are far more that do than don't. It is an intricate part of determining the direction your team takes.

This is actually a good thing. I think it bodes well, that we have every level of command on the same page.

 

but Rivera is not Gettlemans guy. plus other GMs such as Dimtiroff, Newsome who was under guys in a WCO currently do not run that offense because their coaches do not. or vice versa. a GM is somebody who knows the game, and should get whoever the coaches want and need to fit there system. you cannot be a successful organization if the GM and HC do not have a relationship.

 

a GM philosophy is to build a championship team, not determine what offense or defensive scheme a coach should run. should it be apart of the interview process, yeah. but if you basing your selection of a HC because he wants to run this or that, then you will miss out on some of the better prospects.



#168 panthers55

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:08 PM

i never knew that a GM determines what philosophy a coach decides to run. he is in control of the bigger picture as far as personnel on the team wise, but i do not believe he insist in over stepping his boundries. i have a hard time of seeing Thompson, Reese, Smith, Ozzie or any successful GM getting involved with game planning. e havent won many games in the last 4 years.

See how much you can learn by reading other posts. Now you have learned GMs do impart their philosophy on a team and can get just as involved as they want. They can sit back or micromanage all they want. They are the boss and except for the owner they make the rules.

#169 panthers55

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:18 PM

When and where did Richardson say stop running the read option. I missed it.

I guess you werent important enough to be included
Dont worry, I will be glad to pass along tidbits I pick up.
Seriously you think Rivera or Chud came up with that on their own? Suddenly Hurney is gone, Rivera is summoned to the mansion and his job is threatened and suddenly the philosophy changes and you think Richardson had nothing to do with it. Are you so limited you need an article to tell you what happened. Seriously????

#170 panthers55

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:31 PM

but Rivera is not Gettlemans guy. plus other GMs such as Dimtiroff, Newsome who was under guys in a WCO currently do not run that offense because their coaches do not. or vice versa. a GM is somebody who knows the game, and should get whoever the coaches want and need to fit there system. you cannot be a successful organization if the GM and HC do not have a relationship.

a GM philosophy is to build a championship team, not determine what offense or defensive scheme a coach should run. should it be apart of the interview process, yeah. but if you basing your selection of a HC because he wants to run this or that, then you will miss out on some of the better prospects.

Gettleman said he liked Rivera and though highly of him so who said he wasnt Gettleman's guy. Not Gettleman. Secondly you throw around Dimitroff and Newsomes name like you are personal friends and have intimate knowledge about what they think or believe. You dont have a clue so stop name dropping like you have ever talked to either about their roles and what they do on a daily basis.

#171 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:52 PM

See how much you can learn by reading other posts. Now you have learned GMs do impart their philosophy on a team and can get just as involved as they want. They can sit back or micromanage all they want. They are the boss and except for the owner they make the rules.


Yes, GM's hire coaches who can put there philosophy into action.

Gettlemen? He was told you get Ron Rivera and Cam Newton....you aren't coming in to put your dream on the field in 2013. Gettlemen was never in a postion to hire a coach....and an offense and defense. He has to look at what Rivera does, try to find common ground and do his best to give Ron what Ron needs and wants.

#172 iamhubby1

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

I guess you werent important enough to be included
Dont worry, I will be glad to pass along tidbits I pick up.
Seriously you think Rivera or Chud came up with that on their own? Suddenly Hurney is gone, Rivera is summoned to the mansion and his job is threatened and suddennly the philosophy changes and you thonk Richardson had nothing to do with it. Are you so limited you need an article to tell you what happened. Seriously????


I was under the impression it was common knowledge JR had a talk with Rivera when hurnog was canned. That he wanted to see growth, and they would reassess at seasons end.

Rivera must have impressed in both instances, because he is still here.

We all know Rivera was not a Gettlemen choice. Does not mean they are not on the same page. I firmly believe Rivera would be a Gettlemen guy anyway. Blue collar nothing fancy kind a guy.

Some folks on here want you to believe Gettlemen would be willing and able to sabotage Rivera so he can bring in his own guy. That it just can't be possible they think alike as to how a football team should be built and run.

Just because Gettlemen is Riveras boss does not mean he is calling plays. I really wish folks would quit being so melodramatic. All Gettlemen needs to know is that Rivera and him agree on the direction this team is to go.

I also don't know why this is such a huge deal? You just never know what topic will go on and on, and which ones die a quick death.

#173 TheRed

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:02 AM

I guess you werent important enough to be included
Dont worry, I will be glad to pass along tidbits I pick up.
Seriously you think Rivera or Chud came up with that on their own? Suddenly Hurney is gone, Rivera is summoned to the mansion and his job is threatened and suddenly the philosophy changes and you think Richardson had nothing to do with it. Are you so limited you need an article to tell you what happened. Seriously????

 

Are you on some new medication or something?



#174 iamhubby1

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:18 AM

Yes, GM's hire coaches who can put there philosophy into action.

Gettlemen? He was told you get Ron Rivera and Cam Newton....you aren't coming in to put your dream on the field in 2013. Gettlemen was never in a postion to hire a coach....and an offense and defense. He has to look at what Rivera does, try to find common ground and do his best to give Ron what Ron needs and wants.


That is exactly what most everyone is trying to tell you. Coaches coach, GMs GM.

Gettlemen took the job knowing what was in place. Maybe, just maybe, he was content with what we had. I'm sure he did his due diligence on Rivera before he took the job, to ascertain whether they were on the same page? Maybe he actually liked what he saw.

On the flip side. Would Gettlemen have even taken the job if he wasn't impressed with Rivera? That he disagreed with some of Rivera ideas, but knew he may be stuck with him? What if, God forbid, we make the playoffs? Would that piss Gettlemen off because he is still stuck with Rivera?

Gettlemen may not have hired Rivera. But it sure seems to me, and others, that they have the same philosophy. That they are working together to right this ship. That the culture around the team is vastly different than it was just two short years ago.

We are in much better shape football wise. Why is that not enough?

#175 iamhubby1

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 12:47 AM

Yeah, um...Gettlemen didn't bring in Rivera. He had no say. Rivera/Cam is something he inherited and simply has to accept....for now.


Nice qualifier...for now.

Everyone knows Gettlemen didn't hire Rivera. But he took the job anyway. Why would he take the job if he didn't like the coach? Or the existing infrastructure?

I mean think about it? Does he want to be a GM so badly, something he never really pursued, he would take a job that didn't fit him?

Or is it, God forbid, that you think Gettlemen took the job hoping Rivera would screw up and get canned so he can bring in his own guy?

As much as this may pain you, if have to tell you Gettlemen took the job because he actually liked what he saw here. Coach included.

Also, if you are going to spin my words, at least use them in context...wait, you wouldn't do that would you?

I love this interwebz thingy. I wish they would have had something like this when I was growing up. Well...we did have a party line. Does that count?

#176 Woodie

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:37 AM

Your line 3 is gameplanning.  Head coaches don't micromanage either but they do help the coordinator with the game plan just like Rivera did  in 2012.  Depends on the level of game planning you are talking about.  But to say they don;t get involved in not likely true.  The issue is how involved.

 

I think the issue is semantics.  Your definition of gameplanning is different than mine.  But I think our general points are pretty similar.  To me, gameplanning is, as the name implies, planning the various elements the team will employ during a game.  That's far more detailed than a GM will get into.  However, I agree that they do offer suggestions and put their two cents in.  So do have influence in what the team does on the field.

 

Much like how a head coach sets the tone and expectations for his coordinators, the GM does the same for his head coach.  He's going to hire a coach that will take the team in the direction and runs the system he wants.  That's why it's so important that GM and HC are on the same page and that the GM has real power to make a change if he doesn't like where the team is heading.
 



#177 Woodie

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:59 AM

Why do you think a GM brings in his own guy as the coach? Because he is bringing a guy that fits his philosophy. So he is in fact setting what the team will be, right from the start.

When the GM and coach interact as much as Rivera and Gettlemen they communicate. That does not mean Gettlemen is drawing up plays. It simply means he is honing the philosophy of who we want to be.

Not every GM - Coach have this type of relationship. But there are far more that do than don't. It is an intricate part of determining the direction your team takes.

This is actually a good thing. I think it bodes well, that we have every level of command on the same page.

 

Yep.  While Gettleman didn't hire Rivera, I do think they are forming a very good working relationship.  And I think a big part of the reason for that is that they have fairly similar philosophies and visions for how a team should be built and run.  In fact, I think Rivera is exactly the kind of coach Gettleman would have hired if he was able to bring in his own guy.  

 

As for the bolded part above, I think it's essential for the GM and coach of any team with legitimate SB asparations to have this kind of relationship.  They have to be on the same page and want the same things out of the team.  Otherwise you'll just have a disfunctional mess...not unlike Fox's last year here. 



#178 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 06:54 AM

I guess you werent important enough to be included
Dont worry, I will be glad to pass along tidbits I pick up.
Seriously you think Rivera or Chud came up with that on their own? Suddenly Hurney is gone, Rivera is summoned to the mansion and his job is threatened and suddenly the philosophy changes and you think Richardson had nothing to do with it. Are you so limited you need an article to tell you what happened. Seriously????


This type post is exactly the stuff you bash when others post.

No way for you to know what you are claiming. It was painfully obvious by week 4 and all the losses the overload of zone read wasn't working. Rivera couldn't possibly of seen that?.

So you claim Jerry is the one that made the move? You literally just bashed a dude for talking about other owners/ GMs and there involvement.

#179 bleys

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:12 AM

this thread is hilarious...  



#180 bleys

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:45 AM

allow me to clarify, all of you have spent 20 pages arguing.

 

the "system" isn't going to be so black and white that the GM affects playcalling so much as what the defense gives them as a whole.  Fact is, one game Cam may stay in the pocket and the next have gaping holes to run through...

 

anything else is just arguing to argue.

 




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