Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Cam wants a run game


  • Please log in to reply
180 replies to this topic

#76 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,420 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

So he posted a comment from Rivera saying that we overused it last year and that it would not be a staple of the offense....yet you STILL refuse to accept and believe it.

You are just fuging incredible.

Cam ran x amount as a rookie

Cam ran same amount a a sophomore

My point is only Cam will run. People are too caught up in talking about what the read option was 4 weeks of 2012. I am not talking about those 4 weeks as AGAIN it is not an accurate reflection of the read option in Carolina and Rivera addressed that small window.

So again, look at how the read option was used with Cam in all games outside of the small 4 game window to open the 12 season. It WAS a wrinkle/option.....which coach and GM says will remain.

I have said only it will remain a wrinkle/option.....as it was for te BULK of the games it was used. It overall was not a staple. That was a small mistake and already corrected last year.

So again, what am I not accepting?

#77 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,420 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:09 PM

Fine. Cam will run less than 100 times this year. Of those less than 40 will be designed.


I don't get care about the designed or what not runs....he is a natural runner. So it will just happen.

so you are suggesting he runs on average 4-5 times a game. A little low. He is too good at converting 3rd downs and moving chains with his legs..

I near 40 yr old Steve Young pulled off those average rush attempts per game. No reason Cam should be running less than Steve Young or even on par. He should run more than Steve Young

#78 MadHatter

MadHatter

    The Only Voice of Reason

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,509 posts
  • LocationDark Side of the Moon

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:13 PM

Cam ran x amount as a rookie

Cam ran same amount a a sophomore
?


But, those two years were with the same OC and GM.

Both Shula and Gettlemen said it will be de-emphasized. So, I still think he will run, but less.

I think we will see him run 5-6 times a game, including scrambles. That would give him 80-90 runs instead of 125.

But, only time will tell.

#79 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,420 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:31 PM

But, those two years were with the same OC and GM.
Both Shula and Gettlemen said it will be de-emphasized. So, I still think he will run, but less.
I think we will see him run 5-6 times a game, including scrambles. That would give him 80-90 runs instead of 125.
But, only time will tell.


GM doesn't mean much here as far as I am concerned....

And Shula is only the OC to keep Cam going down the same road he has been on...

Read option wasn't a big emphasis....always a wrinkle unless you just want to talk a 4 game stretch. Rush attempts are simply there for Cam. It was de-emphasized all 2011 and most of 12.....rush attempts and whether the read option is barely or over used hasn't really altered Cams's rushes.

#80 sanjay_rajput

sanjay_rajput

    MEMBER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 939 posts
  • Locationstarkville, ms

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:42 PM

So let me get this straight, an owner who just less than a week ago Gettleman said was not that involved in day to day activities because he had outside interests (as opposed to the Giants whose owners are there every day) is going to have more influence than the GM who is there every day, has been involved in multiple organizations for the past 25 years, and is reportedly involved in every aspect of the game like attending every practice.

 

Seriously????  Just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he won't or shouldn't be involved.  You do know what a grinder is right??  A guy who gets ahead by working hard, putting in the hours paying attention to all the details, etc.  Hint: Grinder are folks who are involved and managing every aspect.  Gettleman has been called a Grinder by virtually everyone.

 

 

He also reports  to Richardson every week .....Richardson may have other interest but i'm pretty sure this football team is also a business and he has important hand in lot of the work  we may not know or is reported...........the only thing Gettleman is going to have say in is the final 53 roster and dealing with the team financially ........find the link where he has coaching influence...



#81 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,420 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

Read option was de-emphasized last year after a crazy start.....

2012
Designed runs
First 8 games - 40
Last 8 games- 38

Virtually the same

Scrambles
First 8 games - 14
Last 8 games - 19

Virtually the same

Other
First 8 games - 8
Last 8 games - 11

Virtually the same

Overall rushes

First 8 games - 59
Last 8 games - 68

The more "traditional" and the more the zone read was "de-emphasized" last year.....didn't translate to fewer rush attempts.....he actually had more. Natural runner. Also, note his 2nd half of the season is when he really turned it on and was one of the most productive QBs in the entire NFL. So yeah, if you are going to claim he will run significantly less.....it should be based on something more than a vague sound bite of when Gettlemen was just hired and asked about his traditional view going in on QBs.

Wasn't Shula credited with the 2nd half shift recently? Facts don't show the Shula/Rivera shift last year in offense meant Cam is less of a runner.

#82 ThunderKatt

ThunderKatt

    Hello to All my Haters

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,073 posts
  • LocationIn yo moma

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:00 PM

Is water wet when submerged or fresh out of water? Lol

This just in---


WATER IS WET



#83 FootballMaestro

FootballMaestro

    SENIOR HUDDLER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,235 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:26 PM

He also reports  to Richardson every week .....Richardson may have other interest but i'm pretty sure this football team is also a business and he has important hand in lot of the work  we may not know or is reported...........the only thing Gettleman is going to have say in is the final 53 roster and dealing with the team financially ........find the link where he has coaching influence...

 

I highly doubt Richardson would be more involved in the coaching and teams direction (at least for this discussion)  than Gettleman. 

 

As far as coaching and direction, just look at Gettlemen's chops, history, resume and background? 

 

Of course he will help Rivera plan his year, direction and coaching/duties. That's his job!

 

This is of course in stark contrast of Hurney, who couldn't get the respect of Rivera, or JR for that matter. 

 

As far as your question again: Gettleman effects the coaching, cause he provides the direction of the team, from the top down, which of course effects the coaching and direction of the team. The De-Emphasis of the Read Option is an example of that. 

 

If you didn't think Gettleman had influence: Why do you think he wanted to watch Tape of all 16 games in 2012, and probably 2011 for that matter? Come on now. 

 

In addition: Remember, in this relationship/situation, Gettleman probably holds more power and clout than Ron Rivera, who up until this point in his career has accomplished nothing as a Head Coach. 



#84 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,062 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:51 PM

Panthers55 on this very page "Cam Newton will run less".

Saying that certainly implied being limited....and a noteworthy amount.

And again, show me wher Gettlemen said Cam will run less. What he did...was when asked....said what his view has been on QBs running when hired. You are twisting his statement as more than it was and as certain fact...and that he is will dictate playcalls.

Long story short on RBs.

CRA - pick one and move on
55- no, CRA we need and can sign both

In 2013 he will run less you can take it to the bank.  In 2012 I said nothing either way. 

 

Gettleman said the following:

 

The Carolina Panthers general manager, speaking Thursday at the NFL scouting combine, said he wants to see a downhill running game, a vertical offense and play-action passing -- a formula Eli Manning and the Giants used throughout Gettleman's front-office run in New York.

"It's basically going to be similar to what we did in New York and I think that worked out pretty well," Gettleman said.

 

"Ten of the 12 teams in the playoffs this year had true pocket passers," Gettleman said. "At the end of the day, the quarterback has to make plays from the pocket. I think the read option is an option. But at the end of the day, your quarterback has got to make plays from the pocket, and if he can't, you're going to struggle."

Here is what the observer said this morning:

The Panthers are de-emphasizing the zone read play under new OC Mike Shula.
During OTAs and minicamps, the Panthers did not practice very many option plays. The franchise wants Cam Newton to make plays from the pocket first and use his legs to create opportunities in the scrambling game. Essentially, Shula is planning on running more of a conventional offense that features base runs to the backs. It's a good thing for Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, but it could lead to deflated rushing stats for Newton. In his first two NFL seasons, he's rushed 253 times for a jaw-dropping 1,447 yards and 22 touchdowns
 
 
Cam Newton QB CAR 4 Months

Coach Ron Rivera told PFT Live that Cam Newton's first-half struggles in 2012 occurred because the Panthers "put too much on his plate."

"I think we put too much on him," said Rivera. "(In the second half) we backed off of that. Took a little bit off his plate. Put a little more on the playmakers. Put the ball in the running backs' hands. Put the ball in the tight end's hands. Put the ball in the receivers' hands, and all of a sudden you started to see (Cam) grow and develop." New coordinator Mike Shula -- Carolina's quarterbacks coach last year -- is credited with helping to "simplify" the offense for Newton.

 

 

Did Gettleman come out and say Cam will run less?   Not specifically.  But my 7th grader has good enough reading comprehension to see that we will. Does anybody besides CRA still think we will use the read option like we did and run newton like we did last year??



#85 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,420 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:55 PM

In 2013 he will run less you can take it to the bank. In 2012 I said nothing either way.

Gettleman said the following:




The Carolina Panthers general manager, speaking Thursday at the NFL scouting combine, said he wants to see a downhill running game, a vertical offense and play-action passing -- a formula Eli Manning and the Giants used throughout Gettleman's front-office run in New York.

"It's basically going to be similar to what we did in New York and I think that worked out pretty well," Gettleman said.


"Ten of the 12 teams in the playoffs this year had true pocket passers," Gettleman said. "At the end of the day, the quarterback has to make plays from the pocket. I think the read option is an option. But at the end of the day, your quarterback has got to make plays from the pocket, and if he can't, you're going to struggle."

Here is what the observer said this morning:

The Panthers are de-emphasizing the zone read play under new OC Mike Shula.
During OTAs and minicamps, the Panthers did not practice very many option plays. The franchise wants Cam Newton to make plays from the pocket first and use his legs to create opportunities in the scrambling game. Essentially, Shula is planning on running more of a conventional offense that features base runs to the backs. It's a good thing for Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, but it could lead to deflated rushing stats for Newton. In his first two NFL seasons, he's rushed 253 times for a jaw-dropping 1,447 yards and 22 touchdowns




Cam Newton QB CAR 4 Months

Coach Ron Rivera told PFT Live that Cam Newton's first-half struggles in 2012 occurred because the Panthers "put too much on his plate."
"I think we put too much on him," said Rivera. "(In the second half) we backed off of that. Took a little bit off his plate. Put a little more on the playmakers. Put the ball in the running backs' hands. Put the ball in the tight end's hands. Put the ball in the receivers' hands, and all of a sudden you started to see (Cam) grow and develop." New coordinator Mike Shula -- Carolina's quarterbacks coach last year -- is credited with helping to "simplify" the offense for Newton.



Did Gettleman come out and say Cam will run less? Not specifically. But my 7th grader has good enough reading comprehension to see that we will. Does anybody besides CRA still think we will use the read option like we did and run newton like we did last year??
Cam ran more in the 2nd half of 2012 than first half....

You ignore that tidbit....

That was with the "Shula" credited shift in offense....with less read option.

You could remove the read option all together.....Cam still runs. I have been on record 100 times saying the read option will be more like 2011 than 12. An option....nothing we have seen with a very limited read option is backed by Cam running less.

You can continue to claim I think the read option will look look like the start of 12....but I don't. Cam as he showed in 11 and the 2nd half of 12 runs regardless do how little we run the zone read.

So again, what supports Cam running significantly less....little read option doesn't, the credited Shula shift doesn't, nothing Rivera has said does. All you are really basing it on is a GM sound bite about having to make plays in the pocket at the end of the day........and Newton does that.

#86 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,062 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:02 PM

He also reports  to Richardson every week .....Richardson may have other interest but i'm pretty sure this football team is also a business and he has important hand in lot of the work  we may not know or is reported...........the only thing Gettleman is going to have say in is the final 53 roster and dealing with the team financially ........find the link where he has coaching influence...

So if the boss tells his supervisor that we are going to change directions and instead of focusing on overseas sales we are going to concentrate on domestic sales, is that going to impact the supervisor's coaching to the salesforce??

 

In like fashion when gettleman said we were going to use the read option less and focus on having newton being a pocket passer he was telling Rivera how the play calling would change.  You can be sure that Richardson is in agreement with it or is letting Gettleman do it his way. 

 

Gettleman by the nature of telling what Rivera what he wants to see is influencing the way Rivera coaches. It doesn't take a genius to see that. 



#87 TheRumGone

TheRumGone

    mountain man

  • ALL-PRO
  • 10,584 posts
  • LocationAsheville, NC

Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:11 PM

you're taking rushing stats, not number of read option plays. and before you say "that's not cam rushing," that is giving cam the opportunity to rush based on what the defense gave him. that is limiting him as a passer. as well as the fake read option to pass. obviously our oline couldn't handle it.

 

Marguide came out with a chart last year that showed read option plays compared from first half to second half of the season.  obviously first half was significantly more.  our inefficiencies in the "first four games" as you said, (even though i believe it to be longer because of the fake read option/pass plays, and lining up in those formations a hell of a lot more) comes down to the read option plays which are basically designed runs for cam, essentially. He is a quarterback that is why i think that.

 

You just taking rushing stats doesn't give a whole lot of credence to the overall picture in how we designed and ran our plays for the first half of the season.  now i agree with you completely that Cam needs to be Cam and know when to take off and when to sit in the pocket. Sometimes i think he runs when he shouldn't, sometimes i think he throws when he should run. no qb is perfect. but the read-option wasn't just used too much in the first four games. It was used too much and situationally was awful for the first 6 or 7 games. imo.

 

the key is not lining up in the read option formation as much as we did in the first half, which in turn will cause Cam to have less rushes. which means that Cam will be running less. and once again o-line play will have a large effect on how much cam runs as well.

 

 

 



#88 bleys

bleys

    Simple and Plain

  • ALL-PRO
  • 15,573 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:12 PM

over and over, it seems to me that CRA makes good sense on this issue.  I just don't see how Cam passing more in the pocket doesn't give him more room to escape and get yards if it's there, and the defense is smothering every receiver.

 

it's just going to happen from time to time throughout each quarter.



#89 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 26,420 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:13 PM

So if the boss tells his supervisor that we are going to change directions and instead of focusing on overseas sales we are going to concentrate on domestic sales, is that going to impact the supervisor's coaching to the salesforce??

In like fashion when gettleman said we were going to use the read option less and focus on having newton being a pocket passer he was telling Rivera how the play calling would change. You can be sure that Richardson is in agreement with it or is letting Gettleman do it his way.

Gettleman by the nature of telling what Rivera what he wants to see is influencing the way Rivera coaches. It doesn't take a genius to see that.

In the NFL.....if a GM wants a real change in direction......they bring in a new coach and they bring in a QB that fits it.

GM inherited Rivera and Cam...and he isn't a coach. Either Rivera/Cam sink or swim this year. Then the GM makes his move. GM doesn't control the O and QB with coaching....he does it with hiring and firing.

#90 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,062 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 18 June 2013 - 09:20 PM

Cam ran more in the 2nd half of 2012 than first half....

You ignore that tidbit....

That was with the "Shula" credited shift in offense....with less read option.

You could remove the read option all together.....Cam still runs. I have been on record 100 times saying the read option will be more like 2011 than 12. An option....nothing we have seen with a very limited read option is backed by Cam running less.

Again what does 2012 have to do with 2013?  Gettleman was not here so anything we did last year was  Rivera's idea given we didn't even have a general manager to give Rivera advice (unless you can Beane a GM).  Last year we deemphasized the read option somewhat and went to a more traditional system. But Chud was still the OC and obviously still ran Newton as much as he did.This year Rivera said after talking to Gettleman and getting his advice, that we will further deemphasize the read option and make Newton even more of a pocket passer and focus on a traditional running game.

 

Shula helped simplify the offense in 2012 but is doing even more to simplify it now that he is in charge.  He said he is going to a more traditional power running game which is a change from last year.  I believe him so honestly I don't know why we would look at what we did under a different OC to determine what we will do this year.    Last year was Chud's offense that Shula helped simplify.  This year it is Shula's offense that he has already told us would be similar but different in some areas.  Two of those I am convinced will be how much Newton runs and what they use as their base formations.

 

But this is classic CRA.  20 pages saying the same thing over and again and when he is wrong again we might get one post takinng back what we all had to suffer through for 5 months.  Good thing this is the offseason with nothing else going on.  

Let see what happens.  I already know I will be right so I can wait for verification. I  just am not going to keep arguing with someone who never admits they are wrong and argues for pages despite being out in left field.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Shop at Amazon Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com