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Why I don't want Noel.


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#46 carolina-chuck

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:03 PM

Noel is a bust and I have $200.00 dollars waiting for anybody who thinks differently.


I'd easily bet with you, but no one is going to bet on a forum site bro.

#47 koolkatluke

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

Well wasn't Kevin Garnett skinny as hell. Also many of the same people who talk about Noel's weight wouldn't mind Zeller if we went down a few spots (Zeller played last yr around 205). 

 

Also FYI: 

 

Theo Ratliff 214      =  Would you spend the 4th pick on Theo Ratliff a (role Player)?

Meyers Leonard 215  = A true 7'1 footer with the frame to add more weight.

Kevin Garnett 217 = Played some SF his 1st 2 years until he added weight and still has never been a true Post player.

Larry Sanders 217 = Has a better Frame to add weight and wasn't a top 5 pick.

Nazr Mohammed 221 = Would you spend the 4th Pick on Nazr Mohammed? Not to mention didn't we already see how that worked out?

Joakim Noah 223 = Really do you think they have the same body type really???

Camby 223 = Again he was a true 7' footer and again he has never been a post player or scorer? I have to ask this again do you really want to spend a top 5 pick on a smaller Camby??

Marcin Gortat 225 = Why do you keep wanting to pick role Player in the top 5. Not to mention "Again" different Body Type. More Muscle and can add more weight with no problem.

Dikembe Mutombo 228  = Really you want to compare him to a 7'1-7'2 player who had way more length and strength. Again Mutombo was a true center who was longer then anybody he faced so he had a advantage.

 

Wait just read this: 

 

http://www.fearthesw...t-is-a-problem 

 

 

"Calipari scoffed at the idea that Noel is going to be too skinny, claiming that Noel weighed about 222 pounds during the season. The reason that Noel weighs 206 now is because the doctors advised that he cut down the weight for his ACL surgery rehab. Calipari seems to recognize that Noel will need to put on weight in the NBA, but is confident that he'll be up around 240 pounds soon enough."

 

I just don’t get why people are worried about Noel’s weight if his playing weight was 215-220 as widely reported. All heights were sans shoes, so they are directly comparable:

 


Nerlens Noel – 206 lbs, 6’10", 19 yo (215-220 playing weight before injury)
Kevin Garnett – 217 lbs, 6’11", 19 yo
Larry Sanders – 217 lbs, 6’10", 21 yo
Marcus Camby – 223 lbs, 6’11", 22 yo
Joakim Noah – 223 lbs, 6’10.5", 22 yo
Chris Bosh – 225 lbs, 6’10.5", 19 yo
Marcin Gortat – 225 lbs, 6’11", 21 yo
Dikembe Mutombo – 228 lbs, 7’1.25", 24 yo
…and the list goes on

So you have a list of solid-to-great players, who no longer get bullied in the paint because gasp! people with nothing to do but lift weights put on weight. And MOST of which already had 2-3 more years of college weight training on them?

 

You never believe or go by what a players coach says. They are just trying to get a player drafted high to give their program some pub.

 

 

You also forget that while KG was skinny with a small frame he could shoot and dribble and be effective outside of the paint.

 

 

Does Noel play anyway like this really??

 



#48 koolkatluke

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

Yes KKL, I've seen you mentioned the Durant part many times on here before.

Noel is around 205-210. He's 10 lbs lighter than an NBA Anthony Davis. I can gain 10 lbs on Thanksgiving Day. Why do fans always bring up the weight part leading to all Drafts (NBA/NFL/etc)? You act like you never seen players gained weight before. Of course KG and Howard weighed more coming out of HS, but both gained 20 some pounds through their careers.

 

Beyond the fact that Anthony missed a lot of games this year.

 

He plays like this and Noel doesn't.
 



#49 carolina-chuck

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:23 PM

You never believe or go by what a players coach says. They are just trying to get a player drafted high to give their program some pub.

 

 

You also forget that while KG was skinny with a small frame he could shoot and dribble and be effective outside of the paint.

 

 

Does Noel play anyway like this really??

 

They're totally different type of players!

 

First, you complained about his weight. Now, someone showed you facts about previous players who actually were able to gained weights, and you continue your hatred with his dribbling ability. What's next? You dont like his hair style?



#50 carolina-chuck

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:24 PM

Beyond the fact that Anthony missed a lot of games this year.

 

He plays like this and Noel doesn't.
 

 

I'm sorry but everyone knows that Davis' offensive game is much, much better than Noel.



#51 koolkatluke

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:28 PM

Of course his offense isn't as polished as Drummond, but I remember many who believed Drummond was a bust last year this time. You seriously knows nothing. How could you say with confident that he's going to be a bust is silly.

 

He isn't as polished as Kwame Brown coming out of highschool.

 

And Drummond is bigger stronger and just as athletic. Drummond already has a Nba body for the post. Noel will never have that.

 

 

Because I see his game. I see his body type. And it doesn't fit together.
 



#52 koolkatluke

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

They're totally different type of players!

 

First, you complained about his weight. Now, someone showed you facts about previous players who actually were able to gained weights, and you continue your hatred with his dribbling ability. What's next? You dont like his hair style?

 

I'm going to explain this as simple as possible.

 

He has Davis and KG's body type but he doesn't play like them. They are able to be effective as PF because they can play on the outside and not have to spend a lot of times in the post. They can Face up players other PF and either shoot over them (because they can shoot) or drive pass them (because they can handle the ball).

 

Noel plays like Dwight Howard and Shaq. But will never have their Bodies and strength. Meaning they can take the beating in the post and can spend all their time in the paint and be effective. Noel can't.

 

 

Do you understand???  Noel has KG's Body but plays like Howard do you not see that this isn't going to work out for him.



#53 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

Skinny-weak at Small fwd or Guard Ok.

Skinny-weak at Power Fwd or Center..not OK.

Like Koolkat said the skill set of Garnett and Anthony Davis(who was a guard before) is different than Noel.

Noel is closer to an in between of Joel Anthony n Camby. Neither are close to a 4th pick even if without a knee injury.

He is a nice guy and quick for the dunk but he has to develop elsewhere. I think he will develop but 5years from now.

#54 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

Well wasn't Kevin Garnett skinny as hell. Also many of the same people who talk about Noel's weight wouldn't mind Zeller if we went down a few spots (Zeller played last yr around 205).

Also FYI:

Theo Ratliff 214
Meyers Leonard 215
Kevin Garnett 217
Larry Sanders 217
Nazr Mohammed 221
Joakim Noah 223
Camby 223
Marcin Gortat 225
Dikembe Mutombo 228

Wait just read this:


http://www.fearthesw...ht-is-a-problem

"Calipari scoffed at the idea that Noel is going to be too skinny, claiming that Noel weighed about 222 pounds during the season. The reason that Noel weighs 206 now is because the doctors advised that he cut down the weight for his ACL surgery rehab. Calipari seems to recognize that Noel will need to put on weight in the NBA, but is confident that he'll be up around 240 pounds soon enough."

I just don’t get why people are worried about Noel’s weight if his playing weight was 215-220 as widely reported. All heights were sans shoes, so they are directly comparable:


Nerlens Noel – 206 lbs, 6’10", 19 yo (215-220 playing weight before injury)
Kevin Garnett – 217 lbs, 6’11", 19 yo
Larry Sanders – 217 lbs, 6’10", 21 yo
Marcus Camby – 223 lbs, 6’11", 22 yo
Joakim Noah – 223 lbs, 6’10.5", 22 yo
Chris Bosh – 225 lbs, 6’10.5", 19 yo
Marcin Gortat – 225 lbs, 6’11", 21 yo
Dikembe Mutombo – 228 lbs, 7’1.25", 24 yo
…and the list goes on

So you have a list of solid-to-great players, who no longer get bullied in the paint because gasp! people with nothing to do but lift weights put on weight. And MOST of which already had 2-3 more years of college weight training on them?

That's comparing apple's to oranges though

Kevin Garnett had/has a jump shot and didn't have to make his living in the post as where Noel will be required to stay down low because he can't shoot worth a damn.

On top of that, every player on that list besides Mutumbo were more offensively polished than Noel.

We honesty wouldn't be having this conversation if Noel had an offensive game as he would be the consensus number one overall pick.

Weight is something Noel can gain, an offensive game; might not be so easy.

We've already seen how difficult it has been for Biz to develop an offensive game (and they are about the same age) and to me they have very similar offensive games. However when a lot of people stopped watching last year (last month or so), they missed Biz hitting some 13-15 foot jump shots; something that Noel does not currently have in his arsenal.

#55 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:10 AM

Skinny-weak at Small fwd or Guard Ok.

Skinny-weak at Power Fwd or Center..not OK.

Like Koolkat said the skill set of Garnett and Anthony Davis(who was a guard before) is different than Noel.

Noel is closer to an in between of Joel Anthony n Camby. Neither are close to a 4th pick even if without a knee injury.

He is a nice guy and quick for the dunk but he has to develop elsewhere. I think he will develop but 5years from now.

 

Ninja I can't give him that. He already having problems with his legs before he tries to add more weight and Muscle.

 

 

 

Look at how he lands. Does he ever come down gently or normal. It looks like he'll twist a ankle every time he comes down from a block or dunk.

 

I just don't see him making it.

Beyond the fact that he has Kevin Durrant body but plays like Dwight Howard. Which is a bad combination to start. He is already have leg problems at 206. What happens to his legs at 230-235?



#56 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 12:18 AM

That's comparing apple's to oranges though

Kevin Garnett had/has a jump shot and didn't have to make his living in the post as where Noel will be required to stay down low because he can't shoot worth a damn.

On top of that, every player on that list besides Mutumbo were more offensively polished than Noel.

We honesty wouldn't be having this conversation if Noel had an offensive game as he would be the consensus number one overall pick.

Weight is something Noel can gain, an offensive game; might not be so easy.

We've already seen how difficult it has been for Biz to develop an offensive game (and they are about the same age) and to me they have very similar offensive games. However when a lot of people stopped watching last year (last month or so), they missed Biz hitting some 13-15 foot jump shots; something that Noel does not currently have in his arsenal.

 

1. Not to mention that most of the players were either true centers, had a frame they can add more weight without losing explosiveness, or were role player that you wouldn't spend a top 5 pick on.

 

2. If your frame is right. You can add more weight. But Kevin Durrant at 225-235 can still be quick and fast and explosive. Put another 10 to 15 pounds on that and he won't be the same player.

 

3. I still believe Biz has more upside do to already having a NBa Body and a better touch on his jump shot and hooks.
 



#57 yasuhara2241

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:13 AM

I really don't understand why everyone is just reading what they want to. We were talking about weight and I give a list of players who are in the NBA and were drafted very skinny. 

 

Theo Ratliff 214

Meyers Leonard 215
Larry Sanders 217
Nazr Mohammed 221
Joakim Noah 223
Camby 223
Marcin Gortat 225
Dikembe Mutombo 228

 

Now out of the entire list, yall just focus on Kevin Garnett and now its not weight its skills. Well to be honest you all are correct, there is no Kevin Garnett in the draft period. 

 

Now these other guys on the list...All Centers. All grew into their position. That is what Im saying. And are you saying that these guys on this list have a more developed offensive game? Did you watch any of them in college?! 

 

Now as far as what I see for Noel: 

 

Lateral quickness to say with PF or C

Explosive leaper and gets off the floor fast

Offensive game is just putbacks and dunks right now but has coordination and skills to improve on this

Skinny as hell but thats something that can change

 

Now does he have the power to stay with Centers? In this league today...YES! There are very few true Centers and he will help out a ton on defense letting Kemba and MKG take risks bc you got an eraser in the middle. 

 

 



#58 CarolinaPanthers8789

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:17 AM

I really don't understand why everyone is just reading what they want to. We were talking about weight and I give a list of players who are in the NBA and were drafted very skinny.

Theo Ratliff 214
Meyers Leonard 215
Larry Sanders 217
Nazr Mohammed 221
Joakim Noah 223
Camby 223
Marcin Gortat 225
Dikembe Mutombo 228

Now out of the entire list, yall just focus on Kevin Garnett and now its not weight its skills. Well to be honest you all are correct, there is no Kevin Garnett in the draft period.

Now these other guys on the list...All Centers. All grew into their position. That is what Im saying. And are you saying that these guys on this list have a more developed offensive game? Did you watch any of them in college?!

Now as far as what I see for Noel:

Lateral quickness to say with PF or C
Explosive leaper and gets off the floor fast
Offensive game is just putbacks and dunks right now but has coordination and skills to improve on this
Skinny as hell but thats something that can change

Now does he have the power to stay with Centers? In this league today...YES! There are very few true Centers and he will help out a ton on defense letting Kemba and MKG take risks bc you got an eraser in the middle.


To be honest, you're the only one reading into what "they" want.

When you list a players weight and say that you only want to talk about weight you are skewing statistics. Of course Noel is going to look good next to those other players (when you just look at weight), but when you compare Noel's game (the way he plays) to the other guys you would truly see the whole picture. It's essentially like me saying Victor Oladipo is a good three point shooter because he shoots 44% from the three point line, but I choose to leave out the fact that he only averages two three point shots; so as long as he makes one his percentage will stay in tact. You are doing the exact same thing, you are saying lets look at the players weight; but don't combine that fact with how they play because then then the numbers wouldn't be in your favor.

As far as us focusing on Garnett, there is a reason. You're the one who brought his name up...

Well wasn't Kevin Garnett skinny as hell.


Then you proceeded to list other skinny players, by the way Garnett entered the league out of high school; so of course he was going to be skinny... Now once again, if you only focus on weight you aren't seeing the full spectrum.

Also a few of these guys haven't completely grown into their bodies or their positions. Larry Sanders and Meyers Leonard have been in the league for less than three years and haven't had time to develop. Theo Ratliff never amounted to a great player, Nazr Mohammed either. Mutumbo was purely a defensive player and though Camby was a solid player in his day (another defensive specialist), he was never an all-star. Gortat is a foreign big and plays nothing like Noel, so it doesn't really matter or not what he weighs because he is a court wanderer. The only player I will legitimately give you the benefit of the doubt on is Joakim Noah, who is a very solid center.

As far as watching them in college, I saw a few of them play live. I saw Joakim Noah at Florida and Larry Sanders at VCU (both live). I have a good friend that went to high school with Kevin Garnett so I actually have a few tapes of his high school games (KG didn't go to college). Meyers Leonard was a rookie last year so if you watched college basketball two years ago, I'm sure you saw him play at Illinois. Marcin Gortat is foreign and never attended college. When it comes down to it, the only players I never saw play in college are Mutumbo, Camby, Mohammed, and
Ratliff.

I'd also like to point out that according to official weigh in's a few of your weights are wrong.

Sanders weighed in at 222
Leonard weighed in at 250 (not sure where you got your number)

As far as Noel is concerned, I agree with you... he shows great lateral quickness and is definitely an explosive jumper (and needs to be because that's how he scores his points [put backs and tip in's])

As far as him having the power to stay in the post and play with the big guys... yeah I doubt it. The average weight of an NBA center is 250 lbs. Noel currently weighs 206 and even if he gets up to his 230, he still would weigh less than Larry Sanders.

Also, there was never really a question that he could play defense. We all saw that when he recorded 11 blocks in a game this year. It's his offensive game that everyone is worried about, especially with the Hornets already having a player that plays very similar to him.

#59 yasuhara2241

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

To be honest, you're the only one reading into what "they" want.

When you list a players weight and say that you only want to talk about weight you are skewing statistics. Of course Noel is going to look good next to those other players (when you just look at weight), but when you compare Noel's game (the way he plays) to the other guys you would truly see the whole picture. It's essentially like me saying Victor Oladipo is a good three point shooter because he shoots 44% from the three point line, but I choose to leave out the fact that he only averages two three point shots; so as long as he makes one his percentage will stay in tact. You are doing the exact same thing, you are saying lets look at the players weight; but don't combine that fact with how they play because then then the numbers wouldn't be in your favor.

As far as us focusing on Garnett, there is a reason. You're the one who brought his name up...

Then you proceeded to list other skinny players, by the way Garnett entered the league out of high school; so of course he was going to be skinny... Now once again, if you only focus on weight you aren't seeing the full spectrum.

Also a few of these guys haven't completely grown into their bodies or their positions. Larry Sanders and Meyers Leonard have been in the league for less than three years and haven't had time to develop. Theo Ratliff never amounted to a great player, Nazr Mohammed either. Mutumbo was purely a defensive player and though Camby was a solid player in his day (another defensive specialist), he was never an all-star. Gortat is a foreign big and plays nothing like Noel, so it doesn't really matter or not what he weighs because he is a court wanderer. The only player I will legitimately give you the benefit of the doubt on is Joakim Noah, who is a very solid center.

As far as watching them in college, I saw a few of them play live. I saw Joakim Noah at Florida and Larry Sanders at VCU (both live). I have a good friend that went to high school with Kevin Garnett so I actually have a few tapes of his high school games (KG didn't go to college). Meyers Leonard was a rookie last year so if you watched college basketball two years ago, I'm sure you saw him play at Illinois. Marcin Gortat is foreign and never attended college. When it comes down to it, the only players I never saw play in college are Mutumbo, Camby, Mohammed, and
Ratliff.

I'd also like to point out that according to official weigh in's a few of your weights are wrong.

Sanders weighed in at 222
Leonard weighed in at 250 (not sure where you got your number)

As far as Noel is concerned, I agree with you... he shows great lateral quickness and is definitely an explosive jumper (and needs to be because that's how he scores his points [put backs and tip in's])

As far as him having the power to stay in the post and play with the big guys... yeah I doubt it. The average weight of an NBA center is 250 lbs. Noel currently weighs 206 and even if he gets up to his 230, he still would weigh less than Larry Sanders.

Also, there was never really a question that he could play defense. We all saw that when he recorded 11 blocks in a game this year. It's his offensive game that everyone is worried about, especially with the Hornets already having a player that plays very similar to him.

 

Great post! Great review! And the link I posted earlier is where I got the info. I didn't check to see if it was accurate. I understand completely your concerns with Noel and believe me I have the same concerns. 



#60 thatlookseasy

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:42 AM

He is gonna be good if he stays on the court, but injury prone big men dont just suddenly stop getting hurt- Noel had some injuries in high school too.  The question is whether his injuries are going to be like Tyson Chandler and Theo Ratliff (who miss a lot of time but keep coming back strong) or more like Greg Oden and Sam Bowie

 

BTW according to this Noel weighed 216 before the start of his freshman year, so he is skinny but not Brandan Wright skinny

http://www.draftexpr...surements-3886/

 




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