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Newton not to lead rushing with Panthers


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#76 sanjay_rajput

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:29 AM

I don't think he referenced Cam being dumb. So you just gave him some useless fodder. 

 

I think he mentioned you having a "low football IQ", not Cam. 

 

Now of course, his/her argument and reasoning skills are ultimately useless, so no need to feed the trolls. 

 

 

He wasn't talking to me, I just hoped in the conversation and misread it......I thought he was saying Bojangles and using it as racist term..........anyways your right, only way to beat a troll is to ignore him.



#77 CRA

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

Basically the same thing.

Inside the 10, the field gets significantly collapsed. Less room for the WR's to move...safeties in the box.

Teams are looking for the run (and especially Cam given our past two seasons). They are keying on him and love the opportunity to take shots on him.

We bought in Fat Tolbert for a reason....and that is short yardage and goal to go situations. We should use him.


I think they used Tolbert much more in the 2nd half of the season on goaline scenarios....

#78 MadHatter

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 12:59 PM

I think they used Tolbert much more in the 2nd half of the season on goaline scenarios....

 

I think they did as well.

 

Runs on those short yardage situations are like a car crash.  The defense knows it is a run and everyone is crashing down.  The collisions there are incredible.  I would prefer Cam not take those shots (even though he is the size of a LB).



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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:34 PM

its interesting that your proof that cam is a winner only references his college days. i also find it very interesting that panther nation generally doesnt think much of comeback wins, could the reason for that be that cam has never had one? your michael jordan reference is absurd. one of michael's greatest attributes was his clutch play at the end of games. you must not have been around when he hit the gamewinner to beat georgetown for the national championship as a teenager, to say nothing of all of his gamewinners as a pro. and to really demonstrate your low football IQ, you state that only losers do things on a comeback. lets take a second and dissect that one. there was a rookie QB this year that tied the alltime mark of seven 4th quarter comebacks. that QB's team won 11 games. on the other hand you have a bojangler of a QB who had zero comeback wins and his team won 7. now i know this is a tough one for you, but concentrate, would you rather have 11 wins or 7 wins? see, i knew you could do it. and you called the one with 11 wins a loser, you silly boy. now then, as far as my trolling style goes, and i really hate to use this term again, but i find it to be pure GENIOUS!

The second you mentioned the word comeback I knew you were a Luck fan boy.

 

The bulls dynasty is known for blowing teams out. I think your memory of Jordan is probably the final against Utah. But throughout the regular reason the Bulls wasn't known for last shot miracle or being down by 25 points. Close games and comebacks are not the came. Driving your team down to kick a field goal to break a tie, for example, is not a comeback. Comebacks are anomalies. It's when the game appears out of reach, like the patriots vs. 49ers last year, and miraculously the team comeback. There is a reason the stadium doesn't empty out when the home team is down by, say, 11 points.

 

And by the way, you're definitely an alt. You got me at 'bojangler'. I was glad to play along.
 



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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:37 PM

Jordan was a freshman wasn't the MAN on the 82 Carolina basketball team.  Worthy and Perkins were the leaders of that team.  Not to mention Dean Smith.  

 

Of course, Jordan hit many a game winners throughout his career but those meant nothing until he got a supporting cast.   63 Against Boston.  THEY LOST.

 

And obviously you only watch the Jordan highlight films.  Jordan was a Bull for 7 seasons before they finally won the NBA Championship.  And they didn't win it because he was a great clutch shooter.  It was because he had a great team behind him.  Mostly full of castoffs.  

 

Pay attention.    

 

Your saying that the only way we win is if Cam puts us on his back?  And I have a lower IQ?  I guess what you are saying as long as Cam Throw 350 and rushes for 75 yds per game. We'll win.  Don't need a defense just climb on his back. 

 

As far as the 4th Qtr Comebacks. How many times has he given us the lead in the 4th quarter and the defense lose it for him? Is that his fault?   He doesn't get credit for the "Comeback" but he put the team in the lead. 

Ignore that alt. Nobody who used the term 'bojangler' on a sports forum should be validated.



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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

just off the top of my head cam did lead a 90 yard drive to ice the redskins game and stood toe to toe with drew brees in the super dome to come back from a double digit halftime deficit.  then there are the three games (first falcons game, second bucs game, bears) where the defense gave up walk-off scoring drives.

 

of course, none of that holds a candle to andrew luck leading his team in to field goal range with 3:00 left to play and the defense holds.  teeray put together this awesome post where he described all of andrew luck's "come from behind wins" and seriously half of them were like "colts kick field goal, defense holds for 3+ minutes".  i wish i could find that thread again.

Isn't it amazing what the media can do in their pursuit to be right all along! They kind of not telling the truth but not lying either. Personally, there is nothing more annoying when someone use that stupid trick against you.

 



#82 jtm

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if Cam's rushing numbers are down a bit, but rest assured, he will still be our goal line back. To tempting to not use him in the goal line.

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:36 PM

Read Option and running, will get reduced, as soon as QB's--like Griffin get hurt, and NFL defenses catch up, better deal with it. 

 

I don't disagree with doing it. Not at all. It should be used. However, it would be fools gold to think it's the long term, ultimate Craze--yet...The Redskins had a great rushing attack, and [basically] a high school offense tricking/freezing you on virtually every play. Seattle had a great defense and rushing attack, while Wilson developed into a good pocket QB. And Frisco was loaded on both sides of the ball. And Cam is just Cam. 

 

Let's see how things look for Wash, Seattle and Frisco (and their QB's) next year before the Official Read Option/Mobile QB Anointment/Takeover?? Luckily, Kaep and Wilson, have very good teams (on paper), so we may never know, though I believe Wilson is a relatively mature pocket QB at this stage. 

So, you're saying professional NFL players were getting tricked weekly by high school-like trick plays for an entire season? I don't agree with that. Calling it HS offense shows that you have some contempt against that style of play. Your point could have been as valid if you called it college offense. And I'm sure RG3 and the read-option played a role in that rushing attack.

 

I think all the QBs we mentioned are pretty mature in the pocket. But they can also run and pick up a first down for you too. What owner wouldn't go for that? Trent Dilfer works with HS level QBs in the Elite 11 and I see what he sees, the top QB recruits in the country the last few years have been mobile QBs. Every team is looking for their Cam. EJ Manuel was selected solely on his potential to be like Cam. Unlike you, owners don't need next year to evaluate the mobile QBs to see if they fit the NFL. Owners realized since the Vick days that the time it takes for a team with a mobile QB to be competitive is very short and don't need a complete team to start winning.

 

Hopefully we can continue this conversation when the season start. Can't wait.



#84 MadHatter

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:56 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if Cam's rushing numbers are down a bit, but rest assured, he will still be our goal line back. To tempting to not use him in the goal line.

 

Already addressed....if you use your franchise QB as a battering ram on the goal line (when you have Fat Tolbert in the backfield), then you it when said QB goes down with a season ending injury.

 

Much like the argument that you don't put your #1 WR returning punts, you don't use your QB as a goal line full back.



#85 dos poptarts

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:19 PM

blah-blah-blah-7 comeback wins, etc.....Cam......blah...blah

 

 

You must think Aaron Rogers is a real loser. If you've got him down in the 4th, you got him beat.

 

Last year at the this time....

http://www.coldhardf...-quarter/15278/

 

Rodgers and Kenney are two of the worst quarterbacks of all time when it comes to fourth-quarter comeback opportunities:

  • Rodgers is 3-18 (.143)
  • Kenney was 3-27 (.100)

 

 

Further in the article it's stated that Jamarcus Russell has 3 comeback wins. (3-6)

Weak sauce....weak sauce...



#86 jtm

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:26 PM

Already addressed....if you use your franchise QB as a battering ram on the goal line (when you have Fat Tolbert in the backfield), then you it when said QB goes down with a season ending injury.

Much like the argument that you don't put your #1 WR returning punts, you don't use your QB as a goal line full back.


I don't disagree but when it is 3rd and goal on the 3 yard line, I can assure you Cam will running the ball.

It's easy for us fans to say this is stupid, but I can promise you no one in the stadium would take a field goal over Cam taking it to the end zone to prevent the potential injury. Our running backs haven't run through a wet paper bag in years.

#87 FootballMaestro

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

So, you're saying professional NFL players were getting tricked weekly by high school-like trick plays for an entire season? I don't agree with that. Calling it HS offense shows that you have some contempt against that style of play. Your point could have been as valid if you called it college offense. And I'm sure RG3 and the read-option played a role in that rushing attack.

 

I think all the QBs we mentioned are pretty mature in the pocket. But they can also run and pick up a first down for you too. What owner wouldn't go for that? Trent Dilfer works with HS level QBs in the Elite 11 and I see what he sees, the top QB recruits in the country the last few years have been mobile QBs. Every team is looking for their Cam. EJ Manuel was selected solely on his potential to be like Cam. Unlike you, owners don't need next year to evaluate the mobile QBs to see if they fit the NFL. Owners realized since the Vick days that the time it takes for a team with a mobile QB to be competitive is very short and don't need a complete team to start winning.

 

Hopefully we can continue this conversation when the season start. Can't wait.

 

Have you watched Washington Play??

 

No one does the trickery, constant motion, lateral, bootleg, razzle dazzle, etc.. they do. That's why I called it a high school offense. It doesn't look like Seattle's, even San Francisco's, and certainly not like the Panthers (though that can be both a good and bad thing--Lol). 

 

I don't disagree with your earlier statement, in regards to where the league is going. There's certainly some merit to that. However, let's just wait and see if Cam, RG3, Wilson and Kaep are the exception, and not the rule. Cause with the exception of Cam, and Wilson (who gets a lot of help as well), I think it would be much harder for these QB's to duplicate their success, if they were required to carry more of the load, and didn't have such good teams to deflect attention. Cam, Luck and Tannenhill, were the only ones that really experienced that. 

 

For example: The Redskins, Seattle, and Frisco (correct me if I'm wrong), ran more rushing than Passing plays during the season? So you can't even call them a Pass first offense. They relied heavily on their run game (along with other stuff to aid their young QB's). Let's see what happens, if/when their rushing games or defenses are not as good in 2013?

 

What I'm saying, is actually a compliment to Cam, Wilson, and even Luck (regarding, "let's wait and see"). 



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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:36 PM

Have you watched Washington Play??

 

No one does the trickery, constant motion, lateral, bootleg, razzle dazzle, etc.. they do. That's why I called it a high school offense. It doesn't look like Seattle's, even San Francisco's, and certainly not like the Panthers (though that can be both a good and bad thing--Lol). 

 

I don't disagree with your earlier statement, in regards to where the league is going. There's certainly some merit to that. However, let's just wait and see if Cam, RG3, Wilson and Kaep are the exception, and not the rule. Cause with the exception of Cam, and Wilson (who gets a lot of help as well), I think it would be much harder for these QB's to duplicate their success, if they were required to carry more of the load, and didn't have such good teams to deflect attention. Cam, Luck and Tannenhill, were the only ones that really experienced that. 

 

For example: The Redskins, Seattle, and Frisco (correct me if I'm wrong), ran more rushing than Passing plays during the season? So you can't even call them a Pass first offense. They relied heavily on their run game (along with other stuff to aid their young QB's). Let's see what happens, if/when their rushing games or defenses are not as good in 2013?

 

What I'm saying, is actually a compliment to Cam, Wilson, and even Luck (regarding, "let's wait and see"). 

I agree that we should wait and see this year. But we can't do that every year. This year the whole NFL has an off season to figure out mobile QBs/read-options. No one should have any excuses when they're put up 30 points on everyone.



#89 CRA

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:46 PM

I think they did as well.

Runs on those short yardage situations are like a car crash. The defense knows it is a run and everyone is crashing down. The collisions there are incredible. I would prefer Cam not take those shots (even though he is the size of a LB).


and they wisely started using Tolbert in the 2nd half

But Cam still had more second half rushes than first half. Which means limiting the zone read and goal line carries.....didnt result in fewer rush attempts. Not about Cam running less or for less yards. Just about running him smartly and he is a near unstoppable mismatch when ran smartly

#90 Gabeking

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:50 PM

i find my conversation exilerating, im presenting an enlightened point of view, and at the same time, attempting to make this board interesting for you dullards. as dull as yall are, even you guys must tire of listening to the same old boring garbage every day. you people drive me crazy. i have a good mind to just sign off, and let you continue to dream of the great things that cam is going to be able to do, once he matures. they say the average male matures around 30, so you only have about 5 more years of defending him as a legitimate, winning, leader of men. you dullards sicken me.


Don't you have a high school party to attend to?


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