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The 46 Defense.....


Best Answer CashNewton22, 09 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

Appreciate the conversation without flaming, lots of respected posters weighing in...

I'd like to reply to most of yous but I'm on my phone so I'm not....

@Frash & FootballCzar -I was going to post that in reply in the AM, thanks Emory...
@PhillyB -cant tell if serious/Futurama pic
@Cyberjag -it has been, will post link tomorrow...
@CashNewtn22 -like I said, I believe we will see 46 looks, it will not be our base D... "We're all out of bubblegum" if you will...


I got you man....hopefully we won't have to see to much of it but I'm positive it can be a great "change of pace" defense if you will from time to time. Go to the full post


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#1 j2sgam

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

Arguably the toughest defensive scheme ever, was damn near unstoppable in its day. I had a thought about it a while back and keep thinking about it, have even mentioned it in a few threads here. I think we are going to see a lot of 46 looks this season, let Chico's influence on the defense be felt throughout the league. Although there is not a lot of info out there,the more I research & the more I think about it, it just makes sense. I have avoided Wiki in my research for obvious reasons...

 

Basically, the 46 is a 4-3 base with 6 men on the line & 8 in the box. It is not 4 linemen & 6 LBs. It was named the 46 because Buddy Ryan, who conceived it, wouldnt/couldnt remember players names. 46 was Doug Plank's jersey number, Chicago's strong safety at the time. It centered around incredible pressure. It was send more men at the QB or RB than they could handle. The SS often moved up into the box, leaving just the 2 CBs & FS back in the secondary. While devastating in its day, it was soon figured out. Marino dink-n-dunked it, showed its weakness, and then the WCO dismantled it for years. It is still used occasionally, mostly by the Ryan brothers, obviously...

 

Im not saying we are going to use it as a base defense, but we are going to use it quite a bit. I believe we are going to attack Brees, Ryan & the rest of the opposition on our schedule. Here's a little about why..

-We already have 1 of the better DE tandems in the league, and we all know what the Kraken is shooting for.

-Our 1st & 2nd draft picks support this theory, more that both were used on the same position, fill a big need.

-Mike Mitchell & the possible Mikell signing also fall right in line with my theory. The Josh's & the kid from the Bears should do well enough to make our secondary at the very least decent, which is all thats needed. 

-Ron Rivera was a 2nd year LB in 1985 under Buddy Ryan, he was there, he played in it, and he knows it. 

-McDermott learned under Jim Johnson, while not B.Ryan, JJ knew & used plenty of pressure to get at the offense, a hybrid per haps..

 

Most descriptions of the 46 defense talk about pressure. For Ryan, it was more than that. He was sending six defenders on almost every play, except when he was sending seven or eight. The persona of the scheme and its parts was meant to be relentless, intimidating and destructive.

http://fifthdown.blo...the-46-defense/

 

The 46 philosophy was designed around a simple concept: pressure wins games. By putting constant pressure at the line of scrimmage, the offense will not be able to run the ball and the QB will not have enough time to throw.

http://chi.scout.com/2/646395.html

 

Theres more I read, but technically I am at work, so I must go do something productive... While I know some of you will flame away at this, Id like to hear some thoughts about something other than fluff, Theyre All Thugs or what hat somebody is wearing in the offseason....

 



#2 thefuzz

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:18 PM

When playing Brees and Ryan, two of the better QB's in the league with fantastic receiving threats, I'm not so sure how well this would work.

 

Would need to think through this some more.  I bet both of them are pretty good against the blitz.



#3 Rules&Regulations

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:29 PM

The 46 was dominant for about a year, then coaches figured out if you just get the ball out of the qb's hands quickly you can beat it.

#4 Udogg

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:49 PM

Yeah I think it's a very interesting concept.  Mixing in elements of the 46, 34 and the 43 are all parts of the game today.  My fear is that we don't have either

 

a) Cornerbacks who can play reliable press or zone coverage.

B) Safeties with the range to cover up for mistakes.  Maybe with an Earl Thomas or Eric Berry...but with Godfrey and (insert name),  I would be scared to death.

c) No one on our roster as of yet has been able to slow down Jimmy Graham or Tony Gonzales.  Maybe father time can take care of Tony, but Jimmy Graham absolutely destroys any LB we have guarding him.  The only person with either a little bit of success has been Godfrey and I would sleep very badly if that's the best we can do. 

 

Our best defense in my opinion is going to be the base 4/3 with elements of man and zone in the secondary.  The pass rush which is probably our greatest weapon is going to be meaner than last year with the addition of Star and Short along with the Dwan coming back.  Being able to shut down the run has been our Achilles.  Being able to put people in 3rd and long situations with the Kracken inside and Alexander and Big Money on the outside were vicious.  I absolutely can't wait to see how Star plays in the middle.  Especially on the 1st and 2nd running downs.  God I wish the season started today.

 



#5 Frash Brastard

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:39 PM

Kinda pointless if you can generate pressure well enough just rushing four

#6 Herbert The Love Bug

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:41 PM

When playing Brees and Ryan, two of the better QB's in the league with fantastic receiving threats, I'm not so sure how well this would work.

 

Would need to think through this some more.  I bet both of them are pretty good against the blitz.

lolz



#7 Frash Brastard

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:54 PM

Any team with a semi-decent spread offense will shred this btw

This is only useful to run against offenses with an equally outdated football philosophy

#8 rayzor

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:24 PM

Any team with a semi-decent spread offense will shred this btw

This is only useful to run against offenses with an equally outdated football philosophy

 

agreed. great against the run. not so much against teams using spread offense type packages.

 

we'll be running what we've been running mostly the past couple years...nickel and dime packages. we'll continue going with 4 DL and 2 LBs or 3DL and 3LBs for most downs. we may be a 43 D, but we don't often have 7 DL & LBs on the field.



#9 natty

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:54 PM

I'm not as sure about Ryan, but Brees would tear a 46 to shreds.  If our front 7 can be as good as they look on paper then we shouldn't need 8 men in the box on a regular basis.  



#10 Frash Brastard

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:59 PM

the falcons have a tuned short passing game so yes ryan will have a field day against an 8 in the box passing defense despite his underpowered arm when Julio Jones takes a quick slant 80 yards about 5 times while we're trying to be old school for the sake of being old school



#11 panthers55

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:18 PM

Agree with those that said we won't be running the 4-6 much at all.  It was great in its day but that was almost 40 years ago.  Plus it doesn't work against spread offenses or those who pass quickly and dump the ball over the oncoming pass rush.

But we will use some of the concepts of the 4-6 which is to routinely rush 5-6 guys to disrupt the quarterback.  

 

In the 4-6, the 6 guys close to the line are not all linemen but often 4 linemen and 2 linebackers lined up close to the line of scrimmage.  This is not that much different than many blitzing 4-3s who routinely send linebackers blitzing.  But it won't be the 4-6 which also has characteristics like shifting the line to the weak side  with the weakside DE playing a wide 9 and putting both linebackers on the strong side of the formation. Problems are numerous most notably linebackers covering receivers in 3 and 4 receiver sets and difficulty against west coast offenses and spread offenses.  If you get past the rush there is no one there to tackle anyone since the secondary is playing man not zone.  And the list goes on.

We won't be running this much at all.



#12 PhillyB

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:25 PM

cant wait to run a 46 and see a couple lobs to receivers running quick slants against josh norman



#13 Pejorative Miscreant

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:56 PM

I think it prudent to make your base defensive package effective and then work on the nuances.  First thought is to get Nak and Norman to give less than a 20 or 30 yard cushion.  After that lets work on the wrinkles.



#14 SIGCHI222

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:12 PM

<“I’ve seen what a feeding frenzy looks like,” Gettleman has said.  “We had a game against Philadelphia a few years back where we had 12 sacks, and we had a game against Chicago where we sacked Cutler 10 times.  I really believe in it.  Can it mask issues in the secondary?  Of course it does.”>

 

I think Dave has Chico's ear and I think you can expect a lot of pressure regardless of scheme.

 



#15 FootballCzar

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:14 PM

Here's how you defend the spread using the 46

 




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