Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

CarolinaPanthers8789

If It Wasn't Clear That We Need Offensive Line Help (OTL Stat)

74 posts in this topic

The point is that their offensive line gets way too much credit because Brees and Brady get the ball out quicker and are in offenses which value quick timing throws. No one is saying our line is great but they are also at a disadvantage when their quarterback holds the ball just like Roethlisburger.

If their line was so much better it would show in the run stats as well. Notice that our line averaged 4,5 yards a run or 8th on the list,. New Orleans averaged 4.3 yards per rush good for 12 on the list. New England was 14th on the list at 4.2.

Football outsiders lists us number 1 in power blocking last year. Due to the read option we were also 26th in getting stuffed. Pass protection rankings are always about sacks and nothing else. Truth is that at least half of his sacks were attempts to run or hold the ball to make big plays instead of throwing it away or dumping it off.

Injuries were the problem plain and simple. Didn't help we started a rookie at left guard either.

Look, you have a point about Brees and Brady getting the ball out of their hands faster than Cam when the defenders are bearing down on them but Cam loves extending plays. It's one of his strengths. Place Brady or Brees behind our O-Line with our receiving core, and I doubt you'd get them completing 66% of their passes and throwing for 4500 yards.

I, for one, don't think their O-Lines get too much credit. Sure, their running stats aren't impressive but both of those squads depend on the passing game, and neither squad has all-pro caliber RBs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is that their offensive line gets way too much credit because Brees and Brady get the ball out quicker and are in offenses which value quick timing throws. No one is saying our line is great but they are also at a disadvantage when their quarterback holds the ball just like Roethlisburger.

If their line was so much better it would show in the run stats as well. Notice that our line averaged 4,5 yards a run or 8th on the list,. New Orleans averaged 4.3 yards per rush good for 12 on the list. New England was 14th on the list at 4.2.

Football outsiders lists us number 1 in power blocking last year. Due to the read option we were also 26th in getting stuffed. Pass protection rankings are always about sacks and nothing else. Truth is that at least half of his sacks were attempts to run or hold the ball to make big plays instead of throwing it away or dumping it off.

Injuries were the problem plain and simple. Didn't help we started a rookie at left guard either.

Cam inflates our rushing stats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last 2 years....Cam had arguably been the most productive rusher in the NFL.

He has taken very very few worrisome hits as a rusher. Take away the short yardage and goaline stuff and you would be challenged to name 5 hard hits he took.

Yes, Newton holds on too long and that gets him in trouble some. But the OL has stunk. They stunk all around last year. Silly to try to find ways to try to defend how bad they were....it ain't Cam's fault. Bc Cam held the ball occaasionally too long doesn't mean he created the piss poor OL

No one is saying the offensive line was good.  The point is that when the offensive line is not good you make adjustments like call quicker hitting plays, dump off more, use shorter passes and crossing routes instead of holding the ball and trying to make a deep throw.

 

Smart quarterbacks and OCs take what they have and do the best they can with what they are given.  Both Chud and Cam share some of the blame here.  Kalil didn't plan on going on IR and it wasn't amini's fault he was thrust in over his head just like Bell was in 2011. How many times were adjustments made because the offensive line struggled by anybody?? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cam inflates our rushing stats

So does Williams.   Waits for the guy who always comes in to bash DeAngelo.  

 

Waits for it................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look, you have a point about Brees and Brady getting the ball out of their hands faster than Cam when the defenders are bearing down on them but Cam loves extending plays. It's one of his strengths. Place Brady or Brees behind our O-Line with our receiving core, and I doubt you'd get them completing 66% of their passes and throwing for 4500 yards.

I, for one, don't think their O-Lines get too much credit. Sure, their running stats aren't impressive but both of those squads depend on the passing game, and neither squad has all-pro caliber RBs.

Like I said, that is the double edged sword with Newton.  When he makes a great play running around we all go wild.  When he takes a sack and we end up in third and 15, we all groan.  I look forward to the day when through experience he learns when to hold them and when to fold them. And he will...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So does Williams. Waits for the guy who always comes in to bash DeAngelo.

Waits for it................

But with Williams on the team Cam...a quarterback...lead us in rushing last year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a bit of both: the O-line has been sub-par, and Cam held on to the ball too long due to inexperience and looking for the big play. No need to go back and forth on this one. You are both correct to a degree. 

 

Cam is going to have to learn to throw the ball away on a consistent basis when things break down, as opposed to forcing the issue with a bad play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't need to audiblize to dump off the ball or go with a hot read. There is a checkdown guy on most every play if they don't go max protect and often hot reads aren't audibles but instant recognitions based on where the defense is lined up.

Nice try but everyone admits who isn't an extreme apologist that Cam struggled in the first part of the year and made better decisions as the year went on and he took what the defense gave him. Sure Chud didn't help him early but he was to blame as well.

There is nothing to be an apologist about Cam not being able to audible at the LOS. It IS a factor no matter what excuse you try to use. He did it all through Auburn (which is why he avoided costly turnovers). After all, one of Newton's greatest attributes is his resourcefulness before and after the snap. So I huff at your comment about Cam finally 'turning it on' towards the end of the season because he was 'smarter' and more mature when that is Cam Newton (always has been and always will be). He always takes what the defense gives him. Now did he make mistakes last season, and did he force plays? Yep. What young QB doesn't though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Continuing my thing with added effect you ungrateful son of a beach!  And precursor people: I'm having FUN with this.  Getting a lil' crazy, so feel free to berate me and offer your top-8 predictions as well.   If I wanted to get pie, I would pick 1-Fournette 2-Obi 2-Basham 3-T. Taylor 4-Kittle etc. but nahhhhh; I'm back from Swami's Cove sipping on a Kiwi Sour Ale ready to create mock draft magica!       Mock Top-8: 1-Brown-Myles Garrett (DE) This is not going to be a surprise QB.  Garrett is a lock.   2-49ers-Leonard Fournette (RB) Early surprise pick.  I believe Lynch at the end of the day wants the biggest impact to give life to the nonexistent offense in SF. If they don't trade down, they need to take Fournette here. Their fans want it and their FO has sounds serious about him.   3-Bears-DeShaun Watson (QB) I'm buying the rumors that Pace really likes Watson.  He has hinted at it a few times now (as much as they love Jamal Adams, this could happen).   4-Jaguars-Solomon Thomas (DL) They're undoubtedly looking at Fournette hard but there is a strong possibility for Thomas here.  I don't think Coughlin wants to waste a high pick on a QB when about 2-3 of the top QBs smell like another Bortles.  I'm disregarding reports that the top-4 teams apparently want a QB now. The Jags also have a big need here on their DL.   Thomas would be a good fit in JAX.  5-Titans-They run to the podium to take Jamal Adams (SS) and don't end up in a trade scenario, but now things get shaken up... 6-TRADE!-Browns (from Jets)-Mitch Trubiski (QB) I truly think the Jets are scared of taking a QB high.  That is also one lost organization so my best guess is that they trade down.   7-Chargers-Malik Hooker (FS)-Unless they surprise everyone like last year, I think this is one of the most likely destinations for Hooker (Sleeper pick: Someone trades up for McCaffrey)     And now... Draft time...   8-Panthers....Ladies and gentleman, this is how we get Gareon Conley CB OHIO STATE.   NOTE: A scenario could be a potential trade down with Arizona at 13 (who would want ahead of the Bills & Saints for Mahomes) so I will add a hypothetical 45th pick.   ...and yes, over McCaffrey and Howard.  Zod's rumors about him being the sleeper pick have me thinking this happens if our top-3 are gone (which I find likely).  We're staying put at 8 and taking Conley, the fans are shocked, but we suddenly have a top secondary in the league.  The last 2 SB champs were pretty darn good back there so let's try making our secondary awesome again.     2-8- TJ Watt SAM/DE Wisconsin 6'4 255  This could end up being a hugely important pick for us.  Given the top-100 talent in this draft, the potential prospects available here may be comparable to our recent 1st rounders in Vernon and Shaq.  I really want offense but we need to capitalize on this as much as the 8th overall.  Stick with the pick and don't move.  I think Godwin and Njoku are gone but we've got an excellent pool to pick from.   Watt could be a really interesting fit into the defense.     (POTENTIAL TRADE PICKUP) 2-13- Dion Dawkins T/G Temple 6'5 314 35 arms 9 7/8 hands Watch out for a potential OL in the 2nd folks.  It's not the most ideal draft for a tackle but there are two swing lineman prospects that could be sitting right around the top of the 2nd for us in Dion Dawkins and Dorian Johnson.  I'm just saying.  Reddick (LB) is the popular Temple prospect but Dawkins could be darn good in the NFL. "I don't know if I see him as a guard or a tackle yet, but I think he can play both. I like him because I think he could upgrade our pass protection inside if we did bump him to guard, but he's athletic enough to play right tackle, too." -- AFC West scout"  (NFL.COM) Oher is a question mark, Kalil needs a revival, and we don't know how Darryl Dubs will progress.  Plus, a G/C backup in Tyler Larsen is our best depth.  Watch out.       2-32- Curtis Samuel WR/OW Ohio State | 5'11 198 4.31 40   With Ross' 40 time, people are forgetting about the other speedy guys and Gettleman repeated the speed notion about 30 times in his presser.  What I like about Samuel is that he seems to play at a higher level the higher the stakes and is a straight up playmaker.  He may not be the best WR in the draft but we like these Buckeye prospects and go with two in this draft.  Zay, Godwin, & Taywan are great talents but I think Samuel could fit nicely.     3-TRADE UP!! from 4-8- Marcus Maye SS/FS Florida 5 top-100 picks.  Since we have another extra early pick, it makes me think we'd like to package our later rounds to move up into the 3rd to grab a guy we want that may still be available.  5 picks in the first 3 rounds would be huge in this draft and it's not out of realm of possibility.  Maye would fit really nicely into the safety situation here and is coming from a proven NFL caliber secondary program.  He's just a really solid player.  Toughness, ballhawk, good in-game mentality.  Reminds me a bit of Miles Killebrew.       3-COMP- Brian Hill RB Wyoming 6'1 219  Now I don't think he's the flashiest RB prospect out there but he seems to have a good feel to the game and will stick with whichever team drafts him.  I also like Jeremy McNichols and Wayne Gallman quite a lot.  Early contributors with down the road starter potential.  Hill could be a very good NFL starter.  Let's find a Jordan Howard.      Intermission Moving along...   Mid/Late-Round- Jeremy Sprinkle TE ARKANSAS 6'5 252 Underrated and this guy has great size.  Sprinkle could garnish off the draft quite well...   SLEEPER WATCH- Deatrich Wise Jr. DE ARKANSAS - 6'5 274 35 3/8 arms 10 1/2 hands My sleeper of the draft.  Relentless type that would be a perfect developmental guy.  You can see why he needs to grow; develop his move set and better utilize his size, but, I see a ton of potential with some first year impact ability in Wise.  
        /End We make moves.  Also--I want offense early, but man, I'm seeing a lot of 1-2 scenarios with defensive talent falling for us.  Bottom line: I think we should try to get another 1 or 2 picks in the first 3 rounds.  That would be big.  This team needs an enthusiastic injection of awesomeness.     My notable draft surprises/non-surprises: -Nate Peterman (QB) goes top-20 -The Jets make Jets like moves   And now with my sign off (It is still awesome even a week or so past the release!!!):   In Summary: Conley CB | Watt DE | Dawkins RT | Samuel WR | Maye S | Hill RB | Sprinkle TE    
    • Oh I misinterpreted what you were meaning. I, too, believe that if a RB is there he's the pick. What happens if no RB is there? Howard probably.