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meritocracy or bias?


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#1 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:20 AM

http://www.insidehig...asian-americans

 

Critics of affirmative action generally argue that the country would be better off with a meritocracy, typically defined as an admissions system where high school grades and standardized test scores are the key factors, applied in the same way to applicants of all races and ethnicities.

But what if they think they favor meritocracy but at some level actually have a flexible definition, depending on which groups would be helped by certain policies? Frank L. Samson, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Miami, thinks his new research findings suggest that the definition of meritocracy used by white people is far more fluid than many would admit, and that this fluidity results in white people favoring certain policies (and groups) over others.


Specifically, he found, in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade-point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.

The white adults in the survey were also divided into two groups. Half were simply asked to assign the importance they thought various criteria should have in the admissions system of the University of California. The other half received a different prompt, one that noted that Asian Americans make up more than twice as many undergraduates proportionally in the UC system as they do in the population of the state.


When informed of that fact, the white adults favor a reduced role for grade and test scores in admissions -- apparently based on high achievement levels by Asian-American applicants. (Nationally, Asian average total scores on the three parts of the SAT best white average scores by 1,641 to 1,578 this year.)

 

"Sociologists have found that whites refer to 'qualifications' and a meritocratic distribution of opportunities and rewards, and the purported failure of blacks to live up to this meritocratic standard, to bolster the belief that racial inequality in the United States has some legitimacy," Samson writes in the paper. "However, the results here suggest that the importance of meritocratic criteria for whites varies depending upon certain circumstances. To wit, white Californians do not hold a principled commitment to a fixed standard of merit."

 

And Samson noted in his presentation here that these concerns are not just theoretical. In 2009, the University of California Board of Regents changed the admissions criteria for the system, generally eliminating the requirement of SAT subject tests. Advocates for Asian Americans noted at the time that this shift was taking away a criterion on which Asian-American applicants tended to do better, on average, than other groups.

 

lol



#2 NanuqoftheNorth

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 03:54 AM

 

No big surprise.

 

Most people are hypocrites, regardless of age, race, creed, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or political affiliation.

 

That goes double for corporate America and politicians.

 



#3 pstall

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:52 AM

Maybe we should ask Asian people which system they prefer? They seem to thrive no matter which one they are in except for ironically Hollywood. That conservative bastion.

#4 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 01:00 PM

maybe you should address the topic or stop posting



#5 pstall

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:01 PM

maybe you should stop crying when you don't hear what you want to hear.

 

i know i know. white people devil, white people devil, white people devil. Keep that mantra flag flying.



#6 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:08 PM

this is a straw man, and it tells me that you didn't actually read and, as a result, understand the article

 

please stop posting about things that you don't understand. it's really for your benefit as much as it is for mine. you will find it much easier to convince ppl that you're as smart as you claim to be if you'll just stop, take a step back, and attempt to actually understand things



#7 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

btw "keep that mantra flag flying" doesn't actually make much sense. please stop posting. for your sake



#8 pstall

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:19 PM

i read it. white people were like oh wait lets take another look at meritocracy since dem Asians are doing so well. i get it man.

 

white people are the worst offenders at bias and have been since the dawn of man and should be punished at every turn so that others may be able to have an equal playing field.

 

white people wake up everyday with the invisible knapsack full of goodies that affords them so many open doors and it's high time that knapsack gets taken away so they finally feel the brunt of what it's like to be labeled due to their skin color and they should suffer, or at least get punished to some degree.

 

in fact, i say white people should just pay higher taxes simply because of several decades of institutional control and power that has only benefited them and no other group.

 

based upon this doctor's "research" and that handful of white people from Cali he asked, they are ok with the rules, so long as the rules benefit them, the whites, but if other groups start to do better than them then it needs to be looked at or maybe a lawsuit.

and God forbid a black guy does better then the whites are really gonna lose their noodle and they will take their ball and go home.

 

how was that?



#9 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:22 PM

People in California have racist/prejudicial tendencies.

 

People in general have racist/prejudicial tendencies.

 

Also, water is wet.

 



#10 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:28 PM

i read it. white people were like oh wait lets take another look at meritocracy since dem Asians are doing so well. i get it man.

 

white people are the worst offenders at bias and have been since the dawn of man and should be punished at every turn so that others may be able to have an equal playing field.

 

white people wake up everyday with the invisible knapsack full of goodies that affords them so many open doors and it's high time that knapsack gets taken away so they finally feel the brunt of what it's like to be labeled due to their skin color and they should suffer, or at least get punished to some degree.

 

in fact, i say white people should just pay higher taxes simply because of several decades of institutional control and power that has only benefited them and no other group.

 

based upon this doctor's "research" and that handful of white people from Cali he asked, they are ok with the rules, so long as the rules benefit them, the whites, but if other groups start to do better than them then it needs to be looked at or maybe a lawsuit.

and God forbid a black guy does better then the whites are really gonna lose their noodle and they will take their ball and go home.

 

how was that?

 

lol you're such a victim

 

you clearly did not even begin to understand the article. it isn't about white people in general, but the mental gymnastics that a privileged class will undertake to justify and maintain their privilege. meritocracy is fine so long as i'm the one that benefits from it. test scores are an a-ok measure of merit until a group of relative outsiders benefits from it, at which point we should start to consider things like "leadership" or, you know, context

 

the same ppl who argue that equality of opportunity is all that we need, that equality of outcome punishes success, suddenly change their minds once they're not the most privileged group in a given situation.

 

the fact that you immediately made this about asians, and then about me, and then about your own persecution complex, says all that needs to be said about noted scholar pstall
 



#11 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:29 PM

i mean i know that, as you said, you don't have "hours upon hours" to make a coherent argument, but you sure do seem to have quite a few 5 minute periods in which you make a complete ass out of yourself



#12 pstall

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:36 PM

lol you're such a victim

 

you clearly did not even begin to understand the article. it isn't about white people in general, but the mental gymnastics that a privileged class will undertake to justify and maintain their privilege. meritocracy is fine so long as i'm the one that benefits from it. test scores are an a-ok measure of merit until a group of relative outsiders benefits from it, at which point we should start to consider things like "leadership" or, you know, context

 

the same ppl who argue that equality of opportunity is all that we need, that equality of outcome punishes success, suddenly change their minds once they're not the most privileged group in a given situation.

 

the fact that you immediately made this about asians, and then about me, and then about your own persecution complex, says all that needs to be said about noted scholar pstall
 

 

was the "study' not inherently flawed though? what of the background of the whites that were surveyed?

 

and counter with this. those that currently benefiting from anything from afrim action to title IX would they have anything negative to say about those programs at the moment? probably not.

 

and i didn't make it about you. you do a bang up job making about you. i would venture to guess outside of the internet those that you know you best would be nodding in agreement right now with me.

 

and i said Asians because, umm, gee, I guess because they were in this "study".

 

whats so eureka about people shifting an answer once new info is introduced? what was the context of that introduction? since you like context.

 

and the study IS about white people. the name of the freakin study is "White definitions of merit and admissions. lol. wow dude.

 

 

i think you hate it when you think you have posted something that enlightens us serfs and then we go yeah, we kinda knew that already.

 

are you going to start posting threads that say professional wresting is fake? i don't know if i can survive if that iron curtain is pulled back and we find out this stuff is predetermined.
 



#13 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

Wait, wait, wait pstall....  pro wrestling is fake?  w    t      f



#14 pstall

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

i mean i know that, as you said, you don't have "hours upon hours" to make a coherent argument, but you sure do seem to have quite a few 5 minute periods in which you make a complete ass out of yourself

 

and i'm the one with the persecution complex? hahaha.

 

didn't see that comment coming either.

 

you entertain me. you really do. you have put so many in a box that you have your ready made retorts and don't even know when your being toyed with.

 

 

 

 

 

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#15 stirs

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:46 PM

Wait, wait, wait pstall....  pro wrestling is fake?  w    t      f


Silly, it is WWF


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