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The Work vs. Welfare Tradeoff: 2013


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#1 g5jamz

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:05 PM

http://object.cato.o...eworkversus.pdf

 

 

Compare the benefit to what an entry-level teacher positions makes in the state of New York.

 

http://www.ehow.com/...ing-salary.html

 



#2 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:21 PM

why is it always argued that workers should settle for poo pay from poo managers, but you guys never stop to think that maybe these poo managers should incentivize these poo jobs? i mean it's a-ok to pay some dumbshit ceo tens of millions for running their company into the ground, but it's fuging unheard of to suggest that we pay a living wage to workers who are willing to entertain the thought of working some poo shoveling job that management wouldn't dare do itself



#3 mav1234

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:27 PM

Why exactly should entry level positions for adults not actually allow for a livable wage?  i am honestly curious.  do people think it is impossible to do this?  or just a bad idea?  why?  is the idea that if these adults are on a barely livable wage they won't try to improve themselves?

 

as someone on a barely livable wage I can tell you I am working my ass off to do better, despite the fact I could sit in this position for a long-as-fug time.  I don't get it.



#4 Delhommey

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

Because those with wealth want to keep all the money even if they do nothing but hoard it in offshore banks and they have convinced some in the middle class that maybe, if they are very very good and obedient, will get a crumb or two from the table.

 

Wages drive share prices down, you know.



#5 cookinwithgas

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:02 PM

If minimum wage was increased to keep up with inflation correctly, people would have more of an incentive to leave welfare.

 

Oh wait that would HURT business so we can't have that. Bootstraps, people.



#6 teeray

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:05 PM

We cut unemployment benefits and the people surged back to work. Wait I mean unemployment numbers went up again, not down, when they were released today.

#7 cookinwithgas

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

So is this Obummers fault or the governors?

 

I seem to recall everything was Obamas fault about 5 days after he took office. I can't wait to start screaming "STOP BLAMING PERDUE!!!DF#$#" at the drop of a hat.



#8 pstall

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:59 PM

min wage should be 20.00 an hour.



#9 natty

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:07 PM

I love how g5 has us comparing sources from a reputable think tank...and fuging ehow.com.



#10 carpantherfan84

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:13 PM

I wonder if there is a legitimate economists on the huddle. Irregardless (lol, irregardless), irregardless of the fact that I failed macroeconomics (that course is hard as hell to take completely online) it seems to me that America is in a bad situation when it comes to wages in America. No longer are we a nation of low skilled factory workers that consume little per household. Instead we are a nation of low skilled, high consumption day laborers with few people working in long term careers that lead to pensions. Even though the next generation will likely improve upon this thanks to the current administration greasing the wheels of education for upcoming youth, the current generation of 25+ generally lives paycheck to paycheck. We also tend to invest little for the future even with the certainty that Soc. Sec. will undoubtedly be nonexistent when it is our time to use it. This, combined with outrageous inflation makes it very difficult conceive of an America where wages are sufficient to cover expenses.

How so you might say? Well the inflation in America is a result of constant outsourcing of low skilled work to foreign countries to avoid paying large wages to employees. This has allowed our most common consumptions other than food, namely appliances, technology and automobiles to have their prices arbitrarily set at lower prices to allow for purchase. This may seem good, but what actually happened was that fewer jobs were available to the nations biggest consumer base forcing many to seek lower paying jobs and forcing the government to subsidized their income at ever increasing rates. As more incomes become subsidized, fewer taxes are collected to fund the programs, forcing the government to borrow more money thus weakening the dollar. As the dollar becomes weaker the impact of higher gas prices and the trickle down effect it has on the food industry diminishes the buying power of the average household.

So what does this have to do with increasing wages? Well if we increase wages alone the cycle of inflation will continue and buying power will be further diminished. Remember, Americans are already among the highest paid people in the world when compared directly and indirectly, but bringing the low skilled factory work back would undoubtedly drive up prices on our major consumables and possibly negatively impact the overall American quality of life. (Think one tv/car per household type of living) one solution would be congress setting the prices of certain goods and services, but this is distinctly unamerican as it would put government in financial control of private companies.

The other solution is to bring the jobs over anyway, but increase the amount of consumers and COMPETITION between products. You can do this through encouraging average citizens to enter the work force as entrepreneurs and professionals as opposed to employees thus downsizing large name brand corporations and regulating prices naturally. The best way to do this is through MORE government programs that focus on educating Adults to start midlife careers, subsidizing education for the upcoming generation so that more will enter the workforce above the poverty line and removing barriers for new entrepreneurs to start companies. The short term effect is an increase in national debt but the long term effect is more economic diversity and competition and most importantly increasing the pool of taxable income by increasing the amount of people who pay taxes thus lowering national debt and lowering inflation. Once inflation is lowered, more money is freed up to be used on luxury items as opposed to everyday necessities like food and shelter thus supporting the small companies and allowing them to pay their employees living wages.











If you liked this plan, I would like to inform you that this is exactly what President Obama has been attempting to do since he got in to office and also why I think he may be one of our best presidents.

#11 mav1234

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:09 AM

The idea that increasing wages will lead only to inflation and buying power will remain the same suggests that wages (including wage disparity) and profits are at a permanent ratio that can never be altered.  I do not agree with that.



#12 Panthro

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:19 AM

We cut unemployment benefits and the people surged back to work. Wait I mean unemployment numbers went up again, not down, when they were released today.


Well played

#13 carpantherfan84

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 07:25 AM

The idea that increasing wages will lead only to inflation and buying power will remain the same suggests that wages (including wage disparity) and profits are at a permanent ratio that can never be altered. I do not agree with that.

I didn't mean to say that increasing wages equates to higher inflation. (Im not sure how you got that from my post but im willing to clarify) My point was that increasing wages without first and/or simultaneously lowering inflation will lead to further inflation. More inflation hurts the dollar, making any rise in wages moot.

I think wage disparity is a social problem that can be addressed by the federal government through reasonable regulations and laws that is different from the problem of insufficient wages.

#14 Happy Panther

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:06 AM

http://object.cato.o...eworkversus.pdf

 

 

Compare the benefit to what an entry-level teacher positions makes in the state of New York.

 

http://www.ehow.com/...ing-salary.html

 

I'd rather have someone earning 39k as a teacher than 38k as a welfare recipient on basic principal. Also the teacher has benefits, pensions, can work during the summer and will get regular albeit small pay increases.

 

And may teachers make the choice consciously to teach while forgoing something more technical with a higher salary.



#15 Happy Panther

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:13 AM


How so you might say? Well the inflation in America is a result of constant outsourcing of low skilled work to foreign countries to avoid paying large wages to employees. This has allowed our most common consumptions other than food, namely appliances, technology and automobiles to have their prices arbitrarily set at lower prices to allow for purchase. This may seem good, but what actually happened was that fewer jobs were available to the nations biggest consumer base forcing many to seek lower paying jobs and forcing the government to subsidized their income at ever increasing rates.

 

This is very debatable and you will find many articles that say these claims have been overblown. 




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