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Barner over Williams

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#136 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:35 PM

Oh, he was hurt all of last year. He took the damn field. #28 was hurt or dinged up when he ran for 200 yards against the giants. It is silly arguing a point with someone who always have an out. CRA always has an out. #28 struggles and the OL is weak or he was hurt. #34 struggles, he dances too much, he isn't quick to the hole, or my all time fav," he needs a hole." What back can consistently perform well without having a hole? Every back needs a hole. How can you constantly say Deangelo struggled last year and when someone throws Stewart's numbers at you, you say that he was hurt. Or he did just fine in '11. Well, DeAngelo did just fine in '11. #34 struggled out the gate and was the scapegoat last year. So, Rivera made a change and put Stewart in the starting role and featured him and you know what changed in the ground game? Not a damn thing. Did the team start winning after that? Absolutely not. When they changed the running scheme and #34 got an opportunity he started performing at high level again and that isn't coincidental. Until this team find a consistent threat at the #2 receiver spot, the offense will continue to struggle. This isn't about DeAngelo Williams. This isn't about Barnet or any other ball carrier. This is about Steve Smith being the only damn threat on the outside and it hinders the offense. Deangelo will be the main ball carrier until #28 comes back ready to do what he does. Deal with it...

Good or bad OL

I think you need to deal with the fact #34 doesn't fit the scheme as well as a healthy #28

Bad OL...and #34 likely shouldn't see significantly more attempts than options not named Stewart. Tolbert is relevant then. Barner too.

They changed the running looks....and Williams had the same ypc in the first 7 vs last 7. Both Saints game thrown out. How is 3 yards a high level? He did that first 7.

I am a Panther fan before a DeAngelo, Smitty, Cam or whoever fan...some people are such Williams fans (and understandably so), they can't acknowledge he isn't the same guy and also never been the ideal type RB in this post Fox offense

#137 tjmurray

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:46 PM

Williams' effectiveness as a runner didn't change.....not if you look at all games excluding the Saints. First 7 and last 7....identical production almost.

It is a statistical fact used in making such a statement. His ypc was identical....


That is the funny thing about life. You don't exclude things that actually happened. That Saints game happened, but I'll play along. Let's include that 80 yard Td run against the Raiders that was called back due to a hold away from the play. Since you love to take things away as if it never happened. Don't sit here and toss numbers around and say, see he was the same guy, when in reality he was a different player. Both running and catching the ball. Stewart, when healthy, is the superior talent. No question. But don't sit here and tell me Kenjon Barner is a better option at this point in his career because of the line play. That is just a terrible assessment.

#138 Panthro

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:48 PM

The people who clamoring for dwill share the same mindset that makes us 7-9 every damn year.

Players over team

Go buy another jersey

#139 CPcavedweller

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

I think you will begin to see WR screens and scat back screens that the coaches view as running plays.

As soon as we begin running plays that will spread the defense horizontally, running lanes will open. I want to see us stretch the field vertically.
On the third down pass Lafell dropped, Ginn has the safeties and his man beat up field, Cam just had to get him the ball. I want to see cam understand the numbers of defenders he sees and what that means for other routes he's not looking at.

#140 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 01:01 PM

That is the funny thing about life. You don't exclude things that actually happened. That Saints game happened, but I'll play along. Let's include that 80 yard Td run against the Raiders that was called back due to a hold away from the play. Since you love to take things away as if it never happened. Don't sit here and toss numbers around and say, see he was the same guy, when in reality he was a different player. Both running and catching the ball. Stewart, when healthy, is the superior talent. No question. But don't sit here and tell me Kenjon Barner is a better option at this point in his career because of the line play. That is just a terrible assessment.

Considering how drastically 2 games against the worst D in NFL history skewed his production.....it is makes more sense to look at what he did in 14 games against defenses that could at least claim to have a defense....to get a good idea of what he was doing.

Again, it isn't like we are just excluding a game against a bad D....they were the worst in the history of the sport. He got them twice.

Against a bad OL in this scheme ....I think Tolbert already has proven to be a be better option. I think it is worth looking at Barner as possibly better as well.....bc like Zod....some of what makes Barner a worse RB at this stage could actually work in his favor. Barner isn't going to use his blockers...and that gets Williams stuffed.

People want to make it always about Williams....it really isn't even that. More about what we are doing and the best guy for that at the time

#141 Jmac

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

One problem with Barner is that he is a lability picking up the blitz.This fact my limit how we use him with this crappy Line we have.

#142 beastson

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

Well, apparently one goes forward and the other goes backward.

 

Which would you prefer?

 

Can we find someone who goes to the side?



#143 Kevin Greene

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:25 PM

There are a lot of fans extremely emotionally attached to Deangelo, apparently.

 

 

They have Hurney syndrome.

 

There's nothing wrong with being huge fans of players on the Panthers but these guys are the same ones that would still have Delhomme QBing this team

 

The Panthers are unable to purge Williams and Stewart from the roster at this time due to Hurney incompetence. To have done so this past off season would have been cap suicide. Logical Panther fans realize the team's hands are tied for the near future and must make the best of what they are forced to put on the field.

 

Honestly I am kind of encouraged by how many Huddlers get what I am saying. I knew it would go over the heads of some, but not very many. Things are looking up :)

 

 

Yes, my completely level headed and reasonable post backed up by numbers was quite emotional.

 

Williams has 21 Preseason rushing attempts for 51 yards.

Barner has 17 Preseason rushing attempts for 49 yards.

To draw any conclusion from these pathetic stats is beyond reason.

Williams will be the Week 1 starter, it is our destiny. thanks Marty.

 

Not ready to buy that Barner is gonna be better.

The OL issues need fixing. If that doesn't happen, it doesn't matter who's back there.

 

Hey I agree with Mr. Scot! I can't wait to see Barner featured as he should be. A change of pace 3rd down back and receiver out of the back field.

Just get him the ball in space, not pounding the middle behind a porous line trying to do a Barry Sanders imitation.

 

The point of the thread is the poor oline play but you refuse to acknowledge the common ineffectiveness of Stewart last year.

 

 

The point of this thread is more posts.

Well done.



#144 cultclassiccat

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:26 PM

giving our running backs big contracts and drafting a qb #1 without investing in a solid o line and depth doesnt make for a good argument.

 

i agree with tolbert/barner, but we are handcuffed.  the only argument is what to do with those contracts and how much of a hit could we take. 

 

we stayed the course and this is the result.  homer this and homer that till your blue in the face.  

 

calling out our rbs is like screaming "why the hell is my lambo convertible not starting?!?, i fugn paid an ass ton for this poo wtf omg freak out", when you left it outside in the rain with the top down for a year.  

 

take it in stride and stand by the team, its all we can do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#145 Zod

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:27 PM

Oh, its the "Zod only posted this for more posts" thing.

 

 

How cute. Redundant, old, unoriginal, invalid,  but cute.



#146 Shotgun

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:50 PM

There are a lot of fans extremely emotionally attached to Deangelo, apparently.

 

I think the term is Hurneyism.



#147 csx

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:10 PM

 

Williams has 21 Preseason rushing attempts for 51 yards.

Barner has 17 Preseason rushing attempts for 49 yards.

To draw any conclusion from these pathetic stats is beyond reason.

Williams will be the Week 1 starter, it is our destiny. thanks Marty.

 

That's kind of funny. 

 

Don't take him too seriously. 



#148 chknwing

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:19 PM

lol umm carolina was playing the ravens D. you really thought they were going to be able to run the ball well?



#149 rayzor

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

The people who clamoring for dwill share the same mindset that makes us 7-9 every damn year.

Players over team

Go buy another jersey

 

yep.

 

best running game in the league. sure, we haven't had but a couple winning seasons ever because of it, but hey....being the best at one aspect >> actually winning games, right?
 



#150 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:26 PM

lol umm carolina was playing the ravens D. you really thought they were going to be able to run the ball well?


How many teams did RBs run the ball well against last year?

How well have they ran in practice this preseason against anyone?

we ran well on what, 3 teams last year? Ravens D ain't the issue



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