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Handling of a Franchise Quarterback

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Posted · Report post

What you and others are doing are selectively looking at only 2011 on as if that is all that counts and that is a skewed and inaccurate depiction of what we have done.

If a businessman saved a million dollars in the past and only saved 200 dollars in the past 2 years do you say he hasn't saved money for his retirement because look what he did in the past 2 years or do you look at the entirety of what was done?


I would disagree that your analogy fits....it may fit what you want this conversation to be about. Like I said, we really are looking different things....

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First off, this isnt a thread on Cam's abilities or perceived lack of skills in certain areas. This is about how you view the organization has handle having a franchise level QB. 

 

In my personal opinion, i dont think we have handle having one very well. 

When you look at most of the recent teams with franchise level qbs, the teams have tried to build around them. Look at the drafts and moves for the Colts, Redskins and Seahawks. They either tried to provide weapons or protection for their qbs or already had established them on the team. 

 

I havent seen that from this team yet. Its almost as if they expect Cam to make up for the shortcomings of this team on offense. He has for the most part, but i think he will need some help eventually.

 

What is your opinion on how we have handled having a franchise QB so far? 

 You are so on point.

 

I was listening to one of the Talking Heads on NFLN yesterday morning, discussing who he believes will succeed the Sophomore slump. He said Andrew Luck. His reason wasn't based on Luck's talent, but the Colts and how much the team has gone out of their way to help him by providing him with the necessary weapons.

 

Franchise QBs have to grow into that title. And, they have to be given the chance to do so. But it's clear no matter how talented a QB is, he still needs his weapons to help him win and become a franchise QB. Cam doesn't seem to be getting that help nor support from this team nor our media. All he seem to be getting is beaten up on when the team doesn't win or play well.

 

Luck is no great a Franchise QB than say Cam isn't. But, it's clear who will have a chance to succeed and who won't by the way the two QBs are handled both by their respective teams, fans, and the media.

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Posted · Report post

Defense hasn't been fixed....DT was addressed. When we aren't playing a vertical passing team like Baltimore the gigantic hole that is our secondary will show much more.

better to have a great defensive front, and serviceable secondary than the other way around.

Disagree all yiu want.

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Any time something is the worst in the history of something....it skews things more so than your standard yearly crap.

I think the 14 other games give a more realistic view of who he was last year.

Those other RBs, were more consistent. One opponent didn't drastically skew there production like it did with Williams. That is why it is worth noting. Take away the team say Alfred Morris beasted on the most last year....it doesn't wildly swing his ypc.

 

Williams has always been a big play back. Others tend to be grinders and are more consistent.  It doesn't mean that his big runs are less valid or that you don't count them.  Homerun hitters usually hit for much less than other players yet they are still valued for what they do not what they don't do.

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 You are so on point.

 

I was listening to one of the Talking Heads on NFLN yesterday morning, discussing who he believes will succeed the Sophomore slump. He said Andrew Luck. His reason wasn't based on Luck's talent, but the Colts and how much the team has gone out of their way to help him by providing him with the necessary weapons.

 

Franchise QBs have to grow into that title. And, they have to be given the chance to do so. But it's clear no matter how talented a QB is, he still needs his weapons to help him win and become a franchise QB. Cam doesn't seem to be getting that help nor support from this team nor our media. All he seem to be getting is beaten up on when the team doesn't win or play well.

 

Luck is no great a Franchise QB than say Cam isn't. But, it's clear who will have a chance to succeed and who won't by the way the two QBs are handled both by their respective teams, fans, and the media.

Lets wait until after the season before we say this is true.  Unless you believe everything talking heads say......................................................

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I would disagree that your analogy fits....it may fit what you want this conversation to be about. Like I said, we really are looking different things....

Of course you disagree with my analogy since if flies in the face of what you said.  It doesn't make it any less true.  We aren't looking at different things, you are trying to skew the facts to fit your beliefs instead of looking at the facts and letting that inform your opinion.

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Forgive me, but that is as ignorant of a statement as I have seen in awhile.

How are we as a fanbase to educate ourselves and better understand where the Franchise is headed if we do not take the time and try and understand how we ended up where we are?

It absolutely applies, it applies with a 40 million dollar Stewart on the PUP, it applies with a lack of OLine depth, a lack of impact skill players, it applies when the cap was/is in shambles limiting our new GM's ability to mold the roster.

Panther fans absolutely need to look back and often, to become better fans and more educated fans.

One of the biggest misconceptions on this board that is frequently parroted is that Hurney was a good cap manager. Some would even say he was great. But in my opinion, when your team finishes 6-10 to 8-8 most seasons and it's because you've got serious holes at like 4 or 5 positions, and you can't address them all because you're projected to be 7 mil over the cap by the time free agency starts so you have to restructure 4 player contracts just to get under there, you're not a good cap manager.

Hurney's gone but his ghost still haunts us in the form of overpaying contracts to damaged goods or declining players and it likely will affect Gettleman's ability to stock the team with talent for the next few years unless he's so ridiculously good at managing the cap that he can clear this mess up in short order, which I have some confidence that it is possible.
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Posted · Report post

Cam took a hit on 25% of his drop backs last year, more than any other quarterback. One way to handle your franchise qb is protect him and give him time. Not at all something happening here.

another way, is to acknowledge the deficiency of the oline and adjust the offense to more screens and other quick passes to eventually open up the vertical attack.  yes the oline suffered, but Cam isnt even close to perfect in the aspect of detecting trouble and finding the checkdown/hot wr.

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One of the biggest misconceptions on this board that is frequently parroted is that Hurney was a good cap manager. Some would even say he was great. But in my opinion, when your team finishes 6-10 to 8-8 most seasons and it's because you've got serious holes at like 4 or 5 positions, and you can't address them all because your projected to be 7 mil over the cap by the time free agency starts so you have to restructure 4 player contracts just to get under there, you're not a good cap manager.

Hurney's gone but his ghost still haunts us in the form of overpaying contracts to damaged goods or declining players and it likely will affect Gettleman's ability to stock the team with talent for the next few years unless he's so ridiculously good at managing the cap that he can clear this mess up in short order, which I have some confidence that it is possible.

 

being able to stay just barely under the cap and not have winning seasons means you are failing miserably at your job of putting together a winning team.
 

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IMO there are a couple different ways to do it.

 

1: Sit him down for a while, learn the game, and then come in and start after a year or so.  Not as many teams doing this these days, Kaep and Rivers were done this way, Brees for that matter as well.

 

2. Start him day one and surround him with talent as best you can.  Through the draft, resigning O players, and bringing in FA's that work within the type O that your QB is best suited for.   Ask them to throw, try to win games, and learn from mistakes and INT's.  Manning and Luck jump to mind when taking this route.

 

3. Don't ask them to do too much, build a suffocating D, have a good O line and decent RB and not put the weight of the World on their shoulders.  Big Ben jumps to mind here.

 

 

I think that we have tried to do number 2, but have not been that good at it, almost like we started that way, and now are trying to pull a number 3 or something.

 

A lot of this shit goes back to changing coaches, and GM's, but not at the same time....as should have been done.  When Cam was drafted I was a fan of sitting him, as I didn't want to ruin him, and wanted to build the team a bit before throwing him out there.  That is probably the wrong call, but honestly, it wouldn't have mattered, as we still aren't in the playoffs.

 

 

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Posted · Report post

being able to stay just barely under the cap and not have winning seasons means you are failing miserably at your job of putting together a winning team.
 

 

 

Totally agree.  If we were 32 million under the cap and dropping 7-9 seasons, I would have had a lot more respect for Hurney.

 

I had been beating the drum to kick his ass to the curb for years.

 

Should have left with Fox, and we would be in a much better place already.

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