Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

Handling of a Franchise Quarterback


  • Please log in to reply
212 replies to this topic

#136 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,461 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:32 PM

what happened to our 2te system anyway? it worked awesome that first year then we decided to go away from it. 

I think they felt that Barnidge would develop but he didn't.  Then we decided to use Tolbert in the role of fullback/receiver out of the backfield.  I wish we would go back to  2 TEs especially if we are going to run more power running.  22 personnel gives you way more options than 12 personnel.  The only saving grace is that Tolbert is not your normal fullback.



#137 Monday Night Shyamalan

Monday Night Shyamalan

    MEMBER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • LocationHollyweird, CA

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:38 PM

the Baltimore's don't scare me against our D....the Patriot type offenses do.

 

True. 

 

Although one quick point to validate my claim, NYG would not have won those SB's if they didn't display that caliber of defensive-prowess. People point to Eli's amazing 4th qtr plays (Tyree and Manningham catches), but the defense won those games. With Getts at the helm, and Keek able to roam, dare I say our D will overshadow Cam during his tenure?

 

Anywho, nuff said about that. I'm just one of the few in this era who enjoys watching defense more than offense.  



#138 carolinanimal

carolinanimal

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 899 posts
  • LocationConcord, NC

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:42 PM

i kind of wish we took the atlanta approach. high level guard or tackle same year he was drafted and then later 1st round wr. we drafted after him like this was the old 2008 offense. 



#139 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,911 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

We didn't draft more receivers for Cam because we already had them on our roster so we added 2 first round TEs. Look at my post, since 2010 we have drafted as many offensive players as defensive ones . If you add we added more free agents on the offense than defense and had more veterans already, the whole we haven't done anything for Newton doesn't hold water based on the facts not opinion.

2 first round TEs?

Renting an old Shockey for a year is a building around Cam? Double Trouble you mentioned earlier?

We are simply talking about different things...you are just looking at who the bodies are in a given year on a field....

Others are talking about investing in young talent to grow with a QB and to build something that last more than a season

#140 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,461 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

The Saints alone give Double Trouble almost a full yard increase on their ypc average...

They were middle of the road at best last year

And you can go back and look at a running backs best 2 games and it changes the numbers.  Statistically it is not appropriately to do that so stop bringing it up as if it is a valid point.  

 

On another aside, you act like everyone got tons of yards against New Orleans but they didn't. How many 200 yard rushers did the Saints give up on defense?  2   Jamal Charles and DeAngelo Williams.  How many did Alfred get?  96.  How many did Sean McCoy get?  119.  How many did Frank Gore get?  83 And the list goes on.  You can't fault the fact that Williams is a beast against new Orleans or just negate his success especially when not every back had the same success.



#141 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,461 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:48 PM

2 first round TEs?

Renting an old Shockey for a year is a building around Cam? Double Trouble you mentioned earlier?

Sure it was.  He was productive and was a steady relief valve for Cam.  

 

Should we go around the league and negate everyone who is playing on a 1 year contract as not helpful or useful to their team? 



#142 Monday Night Shyamalan

Monday Night Shyamalan

    MEMBER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • LocationHollyweird, CA

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:50 PM

offense wins games.

 

defense keeps you from losing them.

you have to get on the board more than the other team is able to keep up with. the goal of the defense is to slow up the other team's offense just enough that your defense can get/keep ahead.

 

of course it helps if your coach doesn't give the other team the ball with a couple minutes left and invites them to score.

 

Here was my response to CRA that can apply to your statement above... 

 

 

CRA, on 28 Aug 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:snapback.png

the Baltimore's don't scare me against our D....the Patriot type offenses do.

 

"True. 

 

Although one quick point to validate my claim, NYG would not have won those SB's if they didn't display that caliber of defensive-prowess. People point to Eli's amazing 4th qtr plays (Tyree and Manningham catches), but the defense won those games. With Getts at the helm, and Keek able to roam, dare I say our D will overshadow Cam during his tenure?

 

Anywho, nuff said about that. I'm just one of the few in this era who enjoys watching defense more than offense." 

 

I believe the offense vs defense debate (in regards to winning games) is a little more gray than people think. It's somewhat of a loaded discussion, as it's obviously a team sport, but just because you aren't the side putting up the points, doesn't mean you can't put your defensive foot first to win ballgames.



#143 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,461 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:51 PM

2 first round TEs?

Renting an old Shockey for a year is a building around Cam? Double Trouble you mentioned earlier?

We are simply talking about different things...you are just looking at who the bodies are in a given year on a field....

Others are talking about investing in young talent to grow with a QB and to build something that last more than a season

What you and others are doing are selectively looking at only 2011 on as if that is all that counts and that is a skewed and inaccurate depiction of what we have done.

 

If a businessman saved a million dollars in the past and only saved 200 dollars in the past 2 years do you say he hasn't saved money for his retirement because look what he did in the past 2 years or do you look at the entirety of what was done?



#144 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,911 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:54 PM

And you can go back and look at a running backs best 2 games and it changes the numbers. Statistically it is not appropriately to do that so stop bringing it up as if it is a valid point.

On another aside, you act like everyone got tons of yards against New Orleans but they didn't. How many 200 yard rushers did the Saints give up on defense? 2 Jamal Charles and DeAngelo Williams. How many did Alfred get? 96. How many did Sean McCoy get? 119. How many did Frank Gore get? 83 And the list goes on. You can't fault the fact that Williams is a beast against new Orleans or just negate his success especially when not every back had the same success.


Any time something is the worst in the history of something....it skews things more so than your standard yearly crap.

I think the 14 other games give a more realistic view of who he was last year.

Those other RBs, were more consistent. One opponent didn't drastically skew there production like it did with Williams. That is why it is worth noting. Take away the team say Alfred Morris beasted on the most last year....it doesn't wildly swing his ypc.

#145 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,911 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:57 PM

What you and others are doing are selectively looking at only 2011 on as if that is all that counts and that is a skewed and inaccurate depiction of what we have done.

If a businessman saved a million dollars in the past and only saved 200 dollars in the past 2 years do you say he hasn't saved money for his retirement because look what he did in the past 2 years or do you look at the entirety of what was done?


I would disagree that your analogy fits....it may fit what you want this conversation to be about. Like I said, we really are looking different things....

#146 sanjay_rajput

sanjay_rajput

    MEMBER

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 814 posts
  • Locationstarkville, ms

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:07 PM

 



#147 footballisasport

footballisasport

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,024 posts

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:14 PM

First off, this isnt a thread on Cam's abilities or perceived lack of skills in certain areas. This is about how you view the organization has handle having a franchise level QB. 

 

In my personal opinion, i dont think we have handle having one very well. 

When you look at most of the recent teams with franchise level qbs, the teams have tried to build around them. Look at the drafts and moves for the Colts, Redskins and Seahawks. They either tried to provide weapons or protection for their qbs or already had established them on the team. 

 

I havent seen that from this team yet. Its almost as if they expect Cam to make up for the shortcomings of this team on offense. He has for the most part, but i think he will need some help eventually.

 

What is your opinion on how we have handled having a franchise QB so far? 

 You are so on point.

 

I was listening to one of the Talking Heads on NFLN yesterday morning, discussing who he believes will succeed the Sophomore slump. He said Andrew Luck. His reason wasn't based on Luck's talent, but the Colts and how much the team has gone out of their way to help him by providing him with the necessary weapons.

 

Franchise QBs have to grow into that title. And, they have to be given the chance to do so. But it's clear no matter how talented a QB is, he still needs his weapons to help him win and become a franchise QB. Cam doesn't seem to be getting that help nor support from this team nor our media. All he seem to be getting is beaten up on when the team doesn't win or play well.

 

Luck is no great a Franchise QB than say Cam isn't. But, it's clear who will have a chance to succeed and who won't by the way the two QBs are handled both by their respective teams, fans, and the media.



#148 pantherclaw

pantherclaw

    Wise Ass

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,404 posts
  • LocationGalveston

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

Defense hasn't been fixed....DT was addressed. When we aren't playing a vertical passing team like Baltimore the gigantic hole that is our secondary will show much more.

better to have a great defensive front, and serviceable secondary than the other way around.

Disagree all yiu want.

#149 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,461 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:27 PM

Any time something is the worst in the history of something....it skews things more so than your standard yearly crap.

I think the 14 other games give a more realistic view of who he was last year.

Those other RBs, were more consistent. One opponent didn't drastically skew there production like it did with Williams. That is why it is worth noting. Take away the team say Alfred Morris beasted on the most last year....it doesn't wildly swing his ypc.

 

Williams has always been a big play back. Others tend to be grinders and are more consistent.  It doesn't mean that his big runs are less valid or that you don't count them.  Homerun hitters usually hit for much less than other players yet they are still valued for what they do not what they don't do.



#150 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,461 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:29 PM

 You are so on point.

 

I was listening to one of the Talking Heads on NFLN yesterday morning, discussing who he believes will succeed the Sophomore slump. He said Andrew Luck. His reason wasn't based on Luck's talent, but the Colts and how much the team has gone out of their way to help him by providing him with the necessary weapons.

 

Franchise QBs have to grow into that title. And, they have to be given the chance to do so. But it's clear no matter how talented a QB is, he still needs his weapons to help him win and become a franchise QB. Cam doesn't seem to be getting that help nor support from this team nor our media. All he seem to be getting is beaten up on when the team doesn't win or play well.

 

Luck is no great a Franchise QB than say Cam isn't. But, it's clear who will have a chance to succeed and who won't by the way the two QBs are handled both by their respective teams, fans, and the media.

Lets wait until after the season before we say this is true.  Unless you believe everything talking heads say......................................................




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.